Tech/maintenance Bare brass temptation

[DavidUK]

OE replacements on their way. £12 posted.

 

[Damflask]

 

[DavidUK]

I've decided to go for the "upgraded" wet blasted finish, purely as it'll be easier to look after, dirt-wise. I look forward to discoloration but that's a different thing. Taking it to him next week along with two brass keys from the scrap Orsi KM, to be nickel plated as they're now on the silver Orsi Pennsylvania.

...there's actually one brass key, and one brass guard to be polished up and then plated. The top silver key will go with them to try and get a match to it. Fairly sure it's nickel as there wasn't enough tarnish for silver...

The dry blasted finish on the Yamaha 21 is similar to the matt silver areas on the Pennsylvania (hence the ingrained dirt seen below) from which the silver key came and the brass parts are going once plated. ...the guard usefully had a hole behind the pearl and with bumper removed I popped out the pearl intact.

Once the plated parts are back, at a later date the whole horn needs dismantling, cleaning (the matt areas can be cleaned with Walsh's silver solution), and overhauling. I'm really just getting them plated now whilst I'm dealing with the blasted Yamaha as the same chap does metal polishing and works in conjunction with the plater. Pads are soft but old so will see how many are worth saving As it's not worth a great deal I may put my new pads in it instead. Time will tell.

 

[DavidUK]

While I wait for the wet blasted Yamaha (along with the newly plated parts, and ceramic bead tumbled Strand theatre light) I have the next horn to sort out. This is a Trevor James Classic II tenor from a pro player who I'm guessing played it until it played no more. It was bought for very cheaply as a tenor prototype for my new pads.

Does anyone have any experience stripping TJ lacquer? I've tried nothing so far, but it may save me time time if someone says "just boil it in water" or "Nitromors will get it off" etc...

 

[Ivan]

it may save me time time if someone says "just boil it in water" or "Nitromors will get it off" etc...

Find that caesium pill they lost in Western Australia and even if it doesn't strip the lacquer, you'll get a glow in the dark

 

[PigSquealer]

While I wait for the wet blasted Yamaha (along with the newly plated parts, and ceramic bead tumbled Strand theatre light) I have the next horn to sort out. This is a Trevor James Classic II tenor from a pro player who I'm guessing played it until it played no more. It was bought for very cheaply as a tenor prototype for my new pads.

Does anyone have any experience stripping TJ lacquer? I've tried nothing so far, but it may save me time time if someone says "just boil it in water" or "Nitromors will get it off" etc...

Go by a industrial paint store ? I have one here local that services all types of coatings with the exception of house paint. They will even custom blend colors for powder coating. I use them for some of my restoration projects. They’ve made some pretty good color matches and can package a 16 ounce rattle can for easy use. Amazingly affordable. I’m betting they would know best on how to remove the coating.

 

[Dr G]

While I wait for the wet blasted Yamaha (along with the newly plated parts, and ceramic bead tumbled Strand theatre light) I have the next horn to sort out. This is a Trevor James Classic II tenor from a pro player who I'm guessing played it until it played no more. It was bought for very cheaply as a tenor prototype for my new pads.

Does anyone have any experience stripping TJ lacquer? I've tried nothing so far, but it may save me time time if someone says "just boil it in water" or "Nitromors will get it off" etc...

Have you considered contacting Trevor James Co. to ask what type of lacquer they apply?


Here is their contact link:

Trevor James | Signature Custom RAW Saxophones

The Signature Custom RAW is an award winning line of Professional Tenor & Alto Saxophones from the UK, now available in the US and Canada.

www.trevorjamessaxophones.com

It's getting to the point where manufacturers should include "How do I remove the lacquer from my horn?" in their company FAQs.

 

[jbtsax]

While I wait for the wet blasted Yamaha (along with the newly plated parts, and ceramic bead tumbled Strand theatre light) I have the next horn to sort out. This is a Trevor James Classic II tenor from a pro player who I'm guessing played it until it played no more. It was bought for very cheaply as a tenor prototype for my new pads.

Does anyone have any experience stripping TJ lacquer? I've tried nothing so far, but it may save me time time if someone says "just boil it in water" or "Nitromors will get it off" etc...

It is generally the "vintage" saxophones that came with nitrocellulose lacquer that came off easily with hot water as in the photos below. Most instruments that came later were given an epoxy coating. To strip those I have used "Aircraft Paint Remover" which is just a brand name and has nothing to do with aircraft. It is probably not available in your location. It has been made safer by removing the methylene chloride, but it is still pretty nasty stuff that needs to be used outdoors with thick rubber gloves.

 

[PigSquealer]

Have you considered contacting Trevor James Co. to ask what type of lacquer they apply?


Here is their contact link:

Trevor James | Signature Custom RAW Saxophones

The Signature Custom RAW is an award winning line of Professional Tenor & Alto Saxophones from the UK, now available in the US and Canada.

www.trevorjamessaxophones.com

It's getting to the point where manufacturers should include "How do I remove the lacquer from my horn?" in their company FAQs.

@DavidUK may get a lucky reply. These days companies are often reluctant to furnish answers involving any chemistries. Either because they consider it proprietary information or the chemicals needed for a removal process could be toxic. Not made for home use.

I’ve tried to obtain information on foams, adhesive, fabrics, plastics and rubber. All just to see if it’s compatible with silver plate. As in storing or handling a silver sax in a case or a stand.
Hercules answer on there stands,
Q; ”long term display use with silver plate”
A; “Dunno, they were not tested for long-term display use”.

 

[Dr G]

It is generally the "vintage" saxophones that came with nitrocellulose lacquer that came off easily with hot water as in the photos below. Most instruments that came later were given an epoxy coating. To strip those I have used "Aircraft Paint Remover" which is just a brand name and has nothing to do with aircraft. It is probably not available in your location. It has been made safer by removing the methylene chloride, but it is still pretty nasty stuff that needs to be used outdoors with thick rubber gloves.

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There are also poly-based formulations that are used in instrument manufacture that may be easier to remove than epoxy-based coatings. When dealing with strong chemicals, it is a best practice to use the least dangerous path to the desired result.

 

[Dr G]

@DavidUK may get a lucky reply. These days companies are often reluctant to furnish answers involving any chemistries. Either because they consider it proprietary information or the chemicals needed for a removal process could be toxic.

Agree. They may not tell you how to remove it, but they could indicate whether is nitro-, poly-, or epoxy.

 

[greenstripe]

If be very surprised indeed if Trevor James used nitrocellulose lacquer. I'd think highly likely epoxy or polyester. Which will be harder to remove unfortunately

 

[Dr G]

While I wait for the wet blasted Yamaha (along with the newly plated parts, and ceramic bead tumbled Strand theatre light) I have the next horn to sort out. This is a Trevor James Classic II tenor from a pro player who I'm guessing played it until it played no more. It was bought for very cheaply as a tenor prototype for my new pads.

Does anyone have any experience stripping TJ lacquer? I've tried nothing so far, but it may save me time time if someone says "just boil it in water" or "Nitromors will get it off" etc...

I could save you even more time by telling you to "Let It Be".

 

[turf3]

I could save you even more time by telling you to "Let It Be".

Yeah, the delacquering mania has gotten absurd.

Twenty years from now people will be trying to polish back the horns that were stripped, thinking "what the hell were they thinking?"

But who knows, maybe you LIKE green verdigris everywhere, red brass corrosion on your hands, pits in the surface, and so on. Me, I'm going to leave well enough alone.

 

[DavidUK]

This TJ has acid bleed just about everywhere. It was a band player's horn. Maybe he had acid fingers?
The weird thing is, dismantling it yesterday, all the pads bar one are immaculate. The one palm key pad is split, and removing it I see they're "MyPads".
Rather than use it as a prototype and bin perfectly good pads I've decided to clean it up (finished today), get Paul Carrington to pull out the pushed in and leaking low C (the seller said it didn't play properly any more), and some other minor fettling and set it up and then I'll sell it on as a "player's" horn.
It ain't pretty, but someone loved to play it so it deserves a 2nd chance.
I have a couple more to go to Paul for bits and bobs so I'll take a job lot in a few week's time.
The wet blasted 21 alto should be back soon. A spring broke on Andy's (the blaster man) vibration tumbler (I helped get it out last week) so the theatre light tumbling has delayed my collecting all.

 

[Dr G]

This TJ has acid bleed just about everywhere. It was a band player's horn. Maybe he had acid fingers?

"Acid bleed" comes from residual flux left at solder joints underneath the lacquer. Is it just heavily pitted? That's a common
for horns that are played in areas with high salt concentrations in the air. If observed only in areas of the horn that are accessible to the touch, your assessment of acidic skin may be spot on.

The weird thing is, dismantling it yesterday, all the pads bar one are immaculate. The one palm key pad is split, and removing it I see they're "MyPads".
Rather than use it as a prototype and bin perfectly good pads I've decided to clean it up (finished today), get Paul Carrington to pull out the pushed in and leaking low C (the seller said it didn't play properly any more), and some other minor fettling and set it up and then I'll sell it on as a "player's" horn.
It ain't pretty, but someone loved to play it so it deserves a 2nd chance.

Good call (IMNSHO).

 

[Hoosierken]

I am working on my Indiana tenor getting what was left of the old lacquer stripped off and some polishing. This one is circa 1958 by the reconstructed serial list that I ran across.

 

[Hoosierken]

This is another Indiana tenor that I cleaned up. I believe circa 1953 It was in such bad condition that I used a matte finish to help hide just how bad the bell was. The case stenciling tells me that it has been a school sax and from the look of it the bell has been crushed and straightened back out. The second pic is of it and the other Indiana by Martin tenor that is my usual sax. You can kind of see in the third pic and Indiana alto circa 1952-53 behind this tenor upstairs where I practice.

 

[thomsax]

This is another Indiana tenor that I cleaned up. I believe circa 1953 It was in such bad condition that I used a matte finish to help hide just how bad the bell was. The case stenciling tells me that it has been a school sax and from the look of it the bell has been crushed and straightened back out. The second pic is of it and the other Indiana by Martin tenor that is my usual sax. You can kind of see in the third pic and Indiana alto circa 1952-53 behind this tenor upstairs where I practice.
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Good work and nice saxes. Always interesting to read about a "Martin Saxophone Caretaker". For 30 years ago I took a Indian Tenor to an industrial paint workshop for a clear lacquer job. I spent lots of hours on cleaning, polishing, align keys and key cups .... before it was ready for the paint workshop. A Rock & Roll Saxophone (re-starter) bought it and it's still in pretty good shape. He used to come to our Rocksax meetings.

Off topic: Most "The Indiana by Martin" were made around 1953-1954 or 1958-1960 (Martin Band Instrument Company). #458XX-495XX c 1953-1954. #66XXX-76XXX c 1958-1960. I had contact with a former employee at Martin. " The production of Indiana's more more or less concentrated to a few years. The tempo was furious. Fine saxes, but the quality control was not the same as when we made "The Martin Saxes". It was less money for the company to hand over a new sax if a lemon reached the market".

 

[Hoosierken]

Good work and nice saxes. Always interesting to read about a "Martin Saxophone Caretaker". For 30 years ago I took a Indian Tenor to an industrial paint workshop for a clear lacquer job. I spent lots of hours on cleaning, polishing, align keys and key cups .... before it was ready for the paint workshop. A Rock & Roll Saxophone (re-starter) bought it and it's still in pretty good shape. He used to come to our Rocksax meetings.

Off topic: Most "The Indiana by Martin" were made around 1953-1954 or 1958-1960 (Martin Band Instrument Company). #458XX-495XX c 1953-1954. #66XXX-76XXX c 1958-1960. I had contact with a former employee at Martin. " The production of Indiana's more more or less concentrated to a few years. The tempo was furious. Fine saxes, but the quality control was not the same as when we made "The Martin Saxes". It was less money for the company to hand over a new sax if a lemon reached the market".

Thanks for the kind comment. From the documents that I found the Martin started the Indiana Band Instrument Company in 1928. They changed the name from IBIC to The Indiana by Martin in 1942. The first sax that is in the list after the name change is in 1947. About 1961 RMC was added to the name and in 1964 I guess Martin was sold to Wurlitzer. From what I understand this list has been compiled from instrument where the purchase date is known. There are lots of gaps though so exact dates are not so easy to come by, that why I always try to use 'about' or 'circa'.