Playing the saxophone Is it me or my saxophone?

[Mix O Lydian]

C7 to B3 is quite a jump.

Indeed it is. I was just trying different things out, and they were cheap!

 

[Mix O Lydian]

I'm not sure if my 'graftonite' tenor is marked as Rico Royal? I will dig it out and check...

Edit - Yes it does! Rico Royal B5.

The box on my C7 says Graftonite, and I assume that all the Rico MP's I have are the same.

 

[Mix O Lydian]

What are the Tone without Tears exercises? I was a little surprised to see you don't start with some kind of warmup or long tones. Klose #1 straightaway and I can imagine things getting a bit tense 😉.

I feel like getting tone feedback from teachers is not always straightforward. My teacher seems to prefer positive reinforcement and and usually says I sound good (I don't think so of course, but I sort of see his point). The most objective thing he's said is that I "don't have a problem playing loudly". One time I had a sub fill in for my teacher and she said my tone was 'bright" (probably a euphemism for harsh 🙂 ) and she recommended "hairpin longtones", so set your metronome around 50 bpm and crescendo from as softly as you can play to as loudly for two bars, diminuendo for two, starting at middle B, down to low Bb, and then start at middle C and up to high F chromatically.

Every third day or so I alternate a different exercise from an Alexa Tarantino video, ha-ta-ta's and whisper tones, best explained here,

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZH8Hprw9K8

Tone Without Tears is Taming the Saxophone book 1, written by our very own @Pete Thomas ! I use it for long tones/warm up, alternating with the Klose studies. I love the Klose studies. I play them all different ways, fast, slow, swung, mess around with the phrasing. I just have fun with it. Currently I am only using the first two, and have just started looking at the third one.
TWT is presents long tone (and other) exercises in a dynamic and accessible way. But unlike the Klose book, it isn't just full of notes, TWT is a mine of information about technique, breathing, visualisation.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

OP,
Read what I wrote about a basic overtone exercise in this thread.
Get back with any questions.
It's a daily exercise, often several times each day.
Getting the tones embedded into your mind, as you play them, is essential.
Think G1, then play it, as you hold that tone, think G2 as you bump the octave key, then think G1 before you drop down.
Patience is a virtue.

Beginner - Playing high notes,alto sax. - CafeSaxophone Forum

Things are coming along OK for me since I've started again, but I think I've been biting a little and at the very least tightening my embouchure quite a bit to hit from high A up to high D. How should I be getting these notes out clean and with full sound? Is the answer that I should...

cafesaxophone.com

 

[Pete Thomas]

What are the Tone without Tears exercises?

Please pay attention 🙂

The books we sell help to keep the lights on at the Cafe

 

[hedgehog]

Tone without Tears and other really good stuff right here.

 

[thomsax]

I'm struggling with the way my sax sounds.

When people say "student sax', upgrade sax, professional sac. Is there really a difference in sound?

Your sound is what you, mouthpiece, reed, everything on the sax .... creates. The tone is more defined to the pure tone; height/pitch, timbre ..... that you, your mouthpiece and reed is producing.

I think the sax matters. I have a different sound on my New King (Keilwerth) compared to my Martin Handcraft (Committee). The sound of a sax is including players tone, mouthpiece, reeds, design of the sax .... but also key noise.

I think you have reached a level as player when you have some new stimuli. You been playing for two years and been practicing 1-2 hours/day. I think it's natural that you want to try something new. The curious sax players use to be the best.

I'm self-taught so I started to play saxophone in the same way I played football and hockey. When I reached the plateau and it was not working any more, I just worked harder and more. I played way too open mouthpieces and also too hard reeds. When I realized that I played better on my extreme set-up compared to my comfort set-up I changed to a set-up that was something in the middle. I think a sax players should work dynamic. This is not a teacher improved method.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I think the sax matters.

I agree it matters, but a lot less important than player - embouchure - breath - mouthpiece - and reed. I have switched horns in the middle of a recording session (from a MKVI to a Conn 10m) and sounded identical. But I couldn't do that with mouthpiece.

In this case, I don't think the horn is the issue. I mean a TJ "TheHorn" is not one of those saxophones that can impart a specific "sound" that would make the difference between a warm latte and iced latte (cold and jarring).

 

[thomsax]

I agree it matters , but a lot less important than player - embouchure - breath - mouthpiece - and reed. I have switched horns in the middle of a recording session (from a MKVI to a Conn 10m) and sounded identical. But I couldn't do that with mouthpiece.

Ij this case, I don't think the horn is the issue. I mean a TJ "TheHorn" is not one of those saxophones that can impart a specific "sound" that would make the difference between a warm latte and iced latte (cold and jarring).

A good player can make all saxes to sound in same direction.

 

[Steve Marshall]

I've always struggled to get a decent sound on Rico mouthpieces. If you're not happy with your sound I think that would be the first thing I'd be looking at. Mouthpiece prices have gone up so see if there's somewhere you can try some.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Just a thought. Have you swabbed out the neck and mouthpiece?
A slightly soiled neck can rob your tone.

Another thing that helped me is playing with backing tracks. Pick a tune you like and beat it to death just as a tone exercise.

That elusive sax sound you're looking for may need a recording studio, special effects and a genius engineer.

Go see some live acoustic jazz and see what it sounds like raw. 😉

 

[jools28]

Some youtubers sound slightly sharp to me, even one that gets a lot of praise for his playing. I know how you feel, I hate my sound unless I feel I'm 100% in tune. Probably why I spend more time adjusting the mouthpiece than playing

 

[thomsax]

I agree it matters, but a lot less important than player - embouchure - breath - mouthpiece - and reed.

I often talked about this with rock & roll saxophonists. I couldn't hear any difference when Clarence Clemons played YTS 62 or Selmer MkVI tenors with Larsen 130/0 mpc. Clarence sounded like Clarence on most saxes. When he started to play Keilwerth SX90 and Rovner Deep-V mouthpiece I could hear the difference. Clarence Clemons sound was not just saxes and mouthpiece. It was lots of energy, volume, playing technique and dedication. Pete Thomas sounds like Pete Thomas ......... . I think a goal for most sax players should be to develop a personal sound.

I couldn't hear the difference when you (PT) played a Yanagisawa tenor and The Martin Tenor. Maybe you wanted the saxes to sound as close as possible? If a The Martin Tenor specialist would do the same I doubt the result would be the same. Faithful to his The Martin for over 60 years and developed a style which the Martin tenor is his "signum". He wants his Martin to sound like his Martin.

Here is two videoclips of my favorite musicians; John Fogerty and Steve Douglas. John Fogerty is perhaps most known for writing many iconic Rock & Roll songs, his vocal, guitar but he played all instruments on the recording including the sax solo. Steve Douglas was the Rock & Roll Saxophonist. Played with live lots of artists in different styles, recording saxophonist, producer ..... I heard the difference between Forgety and Douglas sax playing at once. For many years lots guys talked about Douglas solo on John Fogerty's recording. Maybe a video clip is more efficient when it comes to leave traces.....? I'm not talking about good and bad.

JF

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SD

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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[Pete Effamy]

I often talked about this with rock & roll saxophonists. I couldn't hear any difference when Clarence Clemons played YTS 62 or Selmer MkVI tenors with Larsen 130/0 mpc. Clarence sounded like Clarence on most saxes. When he started to play Keilwerth SX90 and Rovner Deep-V mouthpiece I could hear the difference. Clarence Clemons sound was not just saxes and mouthpiece. It was lots of energy, volume, playing technique and dedication. Pete Thomas sounds like Pete Thomas ......... . I think a goal for most sax players should be to develop a personal sound.

I couldn't hear the difference when you (PT) played a Yanagisawa tenor and The Martin Tenor. Maybe you wanted the saxes to sound as close as possible? If a The Martin Tenor specialist would do the same I doubt the result would be the same. Faithful to his The Martin for over 60 years and developed a style which the Martin tenor is his "signum". He wants his Martin to sound like his Martin.

Here is two videoclips of my favorite musicians; John Fogerty and Steve Douglas. John Fogerty is perhaps most known for writing many iconic Rock & Roll songs, his vocal, guitar but he played all instruments on the recording including the sax solo. Steve Douglas was the Rock & Roll Saxophonist. Played with live lots of artists in different styles, recording saxophonist, producer ..... I heard the difference between Forgety and Douglas sax playing at once. For many years lots guys talked about Douglas solo on John Fogerty's recording. Maybe a video clip is more efficient when it comes to leave traces.....? I'm not talking about good and bad.

JF

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

SD

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

I think that there’s a distinct difference between people that play with a bright sound and those that don’t. If you effectively (largely) remove the upper frequencies - think Getz or Desmond - then there is less to actually make a difference to.

If you take a Sanborn or Brecker type sound then there are more things to affect.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I think that there’s a distinct difference between people that play with a bright sound and those that don’t. If you effectively (largely) remove the upper frequencies - think Getz or Desmond - then there is less to actually make a difference to.

If you take a Sanborn or Brecker type sound then there are more things to affect.

If I'm understanding you correctly you are saying the actual horn (e.g. the player swapping between different horns) makes more difference to bright sounding players - and this may well be true. But in those cases in order to prove that the saxophone makes more differences to a player with a bright sound, you'd need to make comparisons with the mouthpiece taken out of the equation and that isn't possible.

It does makes sense though if you think about equalisation processors it's definitely a know fact that the more frequencies the more a processor can affect the sound. I'm not sure how well that holds up as a "scientifically" sound analogy though.

 

[Woodpad]

I think that there’s a distinct difference between people that play with a bright sound and those that don’t. If you effectively (largely) remove the upper frequencies - think Getz or Desmond - then there is less to actually make a difference to.

With saxophone the fundamental frequency is not very strong in the frequency plot. For people on the dark side the amount of the fundamental in the total volume has a great impact on their sound.

I agree with the idea that the bright group has more opportunities to filter the upper frequencies, but it sounds a bit too black and white.

 

[Pete Effamy]

If I'm understanding you correctly you are saying the actual horn (e.g. the player swapping between different horns)

No.
I’m saying that if someone plays with a particularly mellow, or distinctly not bright sound, then any possible changes are less likely than a player who plays with a bright(er) sound

 

[Pete Effamy]

But in those cases in order to prove that the saxophone makes more differences to a player with a bright sound, you'd need to make comparisons with the mouthpiece taken out of the equation and that isn't possible.

I’m just saying that I’m less surprised by someone being able to change gear mid-session if they are not a bright player

 

[Colin the Bear]

ERE! Who you calling not bright?🤨

 

[Pete Effamy]

I know what I’m saying in my own head…




…sometimes