Ligatures Does a ligature make a difference to, or affect, the sound?

What do saxophone ligatures do?​

In spite of what you might read on reddit, or what AI tells you,

• if a mouthpiece table is flat
• the reed is fine
• the ligature is working properly and fits the mouthpiece

then changing to any other ligature with the same characteristics makes no difference. Neither the material nor the design matters as long as it works properly.

A ligature clamps the reed to the mouthpiece. Think of this a bit like when you hold a ruler on the edge of a table and flick the bit sticking over so it goes “boing”. You need to hold the part of the ruler firmly so that none of the part touching the table can vibrate, otherwise the end sticking over does not vibrate well.

The same principle applies to the way a reed vibrates on a mouthpiece. Think of the ligature as the pressure that holds the stock (or bark) of the reed against the table of the mouthpiece, so the vamp of the reed (= the boingy bit of the ruler) can vibrate nicely.

Saxophone ligatures have developed a long way since the days when clarinetists would just wind a piece of cord or leather thong around the reed to secure it to the mouthpiece (but some people still swear by this method). But the function is the same. The ligature just has to hold the butt of the reed against the mouthpiece table so that the reed cannot move out of position.

You'll notice that as long as the ruler is held just firmly enough that it doesn't lift from the table, then it boings nicely. However much more pressure you exert the boing does not change.

Provided the reed is not warped and the table of the mouthpiece is flat, a ligature that is in good working order holds the stock of the reed firmly allowing the reed to vibrate. Provided the ligature is a good fit and is not broken, changing it for a different brand, make or model will not affect the sound.

When might it make a difference?​

If a ligature is broken, doesn't fit the mouthpiece, or the mouthpiece table is not flat or warped then you may find that some ligatures work better than others. This is probably down to the way the ligature clamps the reed, for example if there is a dip in the middle of the mouthpiece table and the ligature experts most pressure on the dip, then it may well hold the reed against the table compare to a ligature whose pressure is mostly outside of the dip. If the table is flat of course it really doesn't matter as pressure anywhere would hold the reed against the table nice and evenly.

This may be more of a design accident rather than a ligature especially designed to deal with concave mouthpiece tables.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGLMyCg04s

If a reed is swollen, there may be a difference​

Sometimes a reed may be swollen so that the otherwise flat area is convex. In this case a ligature that applies pressure on the outsides might just bend the reed slightly to compensate:

This could be what leads people to think a ligature makes a difference. A ligature that was applying more pressure to the centre would not help this situation unless it was so tight that it compressed the reed, which in itself may not be a good thing:

Hence they think the first ligature was "better."

So it's important to make sure the table of the reed is flat.

What if the mouthpiece table is not flat?​

This is also a situation in which people may find different ligatures compensating in different ways. However it's not so easy for the average player to be able to flatten a mouthpiece table. Again this may lead people to think one ligature is "better" than another. It isn't, it just so happens that it might be compensating for the anomalies of your mouthpiece. More in the video above.

 

[Woodpad]

That should quickly boost a beginner's tone to pro in months versus years! Will you be able to get Getz family endorsement? When will the Café offer them for sale? Please add me to the waiting list! 😉

Change that to days for one with five oversized buzz screws.

 

[ghostler]

Change that to days for one with five oversized buzz screws.

But that is only with shift in the space-time-continuum with a lig mounted Klangbogen. 🥁 😉

 

[etc-etc]

A ligature should not make a difference if:
1) it applies the exact same pressure to exactly the same areas on the reed, .
2) it deforms exactly the same, and
3) it does not oscillate in response to the sound.

 

[jazzdoh]

Yes, but just think how much better his treasure trove might have been with a three screw, or even a four screw ligature.

Or (ideally), one of these babes:


View attachment 30194

I just think this lacking something, maybe another screw would do it.

 

[Dr G]

A ligature should not make a difference if:
1) it applies the exact same pressure to exactly the same areas on the reed, .
2) it deforms exactly the same, and
3) it does not oscillate in response to the sound.

In the first order, that’s true, but none of those are easily quantified so we don’t know the actual conditions.

In the second order, there is the question of whether the high frequency vibrations emitted from the reed experience the same boundary effects - metal vs “soft” ligatures. There is certainly a difference in the impedance mismatch. In one instance, vibrations will be transmitted, in the other, vibrations will be reflected. Will it make a sufficiently substantial difference to be audible? There’s the test. Sadly, it’s not a test that I can perform as I no longer have access to the necessary kind of equipment.

 

[Colin the Bear]

There's a vast range of ligatures that hold the reed in many different ways.

There's also a vast range of mouthpieces in various materials with a frustrating number of individual flaws, often not visible to the naked eye.

Add to this the varying outer shapes of of all these mouthpieces and the permutations become endless.

Most players have experience of a limited number of mouthpieces and probably fewer ligatures. A new ligature may accommodate the flaws and anomalies in an individual mouthpiece more successfully than the last.

After dressing a HR mouthpiece table flat and balancing the rails the replacement manufacturers ligature plays beautifully on my second hand piece, but so did the ligature it came with.

The difference? Two screw to one screw, for convenience and of course, the "cool"

 

[Colin the Bear]

Having said that, I don't like fabric ligatures. 😕

 

[jazzdoh]

In the first order, that’s true, but none of those are easily quantified so we don’t know the actual conditions.

In the second order, there is the question of whether the high frequency vibrations emitted from the reed experience the same boundary effects - metal vs “soft” ligatures. There is certainly a difference in the impedance mismatch. In one instance, vibrations will be transmitted, in the other, vibrations will be reflected. Will it make a sufficiently substantial difference to be audible? There’s the test. Sadly, it’s not a test that I can perform as I no longer have access to the necessary kind of equipment.

I am sure that if there is a test to measure whether there are differences to the sound the manufactures of some high end ligatures would have done it to prove their case, but it still is the case there is no cast iron evidence that a certain ligature improves the sound against another, but what I will say is fit is everything, badly fitted ligature will not play as well as a good fitted ligature.

 

[Woodpad]

I am sure that if there is a test to measure whether there are differences to the sound the manufactures of some high end ligatures would have done it to prove their case, but it still is the case there is no cast iron evidence that a certain ligature improves the sound against another, but what I will say is fit is everything, badly fitted ligature will not play as well as a good fitted ligature.

I agree that a bad fitting ligature sounds different, but there is a catch.
The ligature keeps the reed in its place by force. An equal but opposite force is applied to the mouthpiece.
When the fit is good this force is equally distributed on the mouthpiece. Now the direction of the force on the reed is not necessarily in a 90 degree angle with the table as the geometry of the clamped reed is not perfect. But I found a way to make it that way.

I made a lig that only applied force to the reed by two rails and to one point on top of the mouthpiece. In this way the angle of the force on the reed could be measured, to ensure that the force on the reed was in a perfect 90 degree with the table. This improved the sound slightly, but was a hassle to use so I ended my experiment.

Now going back to the list of etc-etc:

A ligature should not make a difference if:
1) it applies the exact same pressure to exactly the same areas on the reed, .
2) it deforms exactly the same, and
3) it does not oscillate in response to the sound.

The fit of the mouthpiece is not specified, but a badly fitting lig wouldn't
apply the exact same pressure to exactly the same area on the reed.

And maybe line 1 could be improved by adding the direction of the force.

 

[jazzdoh]

The fit of a ligature is paramount, I have about a dozen or so ligatures that fit well on my mouthpieces and some that don't fit well.
When I use the ones that fit I can't tell any difference or response to the sound between the ligatures including some fabric and leather ligatures, now it could be that at my age, I know my ears aren't as good as 40 years ago, so now I choose a lig on easy of use and prefer the ones that don't damage the mouthpiece.

 

[ghostler]

When I use the ones that fit I can't tell any difference or response to the sound between the ligatures including some fabric and leather ligatures, now it could be that at my age, I know my ears aren't as good as 40 years ago, so now I choose a lig on easy of use and prefer the ones that don't damage the mouthpiece.

Precisely, the lig is a fastener to anchor the reed. The lower lip curled over the teeth determines how much of the reed actively vibrates against the mouthpiece face.

Some pros still use the standard metal two screw lig. So, the other more expensive ones are just personal preferences according to taste, nothing more.

I use a few Rovner and similar out of convenience of the one screw adjustment.

It is accorded to one's cup of tea.

 

[LostCircuits]

Ok, here is a radical idea:

The inflatable ligature. No screws needed, just a little valve with a pressure gauge. The deluxe version has an MEMS sensor coupled to your phone to read out the exact pressure.

Perfectly equal pressure and for those who want to tune it, a few small inserts, like rails, to apply point pressure.

 

[Jimmymack]

Put it into production, make outrageous claims, get some pro players that most of us haven’t heard of to endorse it and charge a lot of money. I think you have a winner. Charge extra for the portable inflater and pressure gauge.

 

[Targa]

I guess there might be something already on the market of a similar construction though used by a certain sort of person for an entirely different reason.

 

[LostCircuits]

I guess there might be something already on the market of a similar construction though used by a certain sort of person for an entirely different reason.

Please explain!

 

[Colin the Bear]

🍒🍆🥯

 

[mizmar]

🍒🍆🥯

How you doin' ? 😉

 

[skeller047]

🍒🍆🥯

Subtle…

 

[ghostler]

Charge extra for the portable inflater and pressure gauge.

A bit difficult to explain to one's spouse why they now have that Harbor Freight 25 gallon air compressor.

"But honey, I need it to inflate my lig on my Cecilio Mendini low-A bari."

 

[etc-etc]

Also, any ligature changes with time - eventually they stretch and/or break.