Ligatures Does a ligature make a difference to, or affect, the sound?

What do saxophone ligatures do?​

In spite of what you might read on reddit, or what AI tells you, if a mouthpiece table is flat, the reed is fine, the ligature is working properly and fits the mouthpiece then changing to any other ligature with the same characteristics makes no difference. Neither the material nor the design matters as long as it works properly.

A ligature clamps the reed to the mouthpiece. Think of this a bit like when you hold a ruler on the edge of a table and flick the bit sticking over so it goes “boing”. You need to hold the part of the ruler firmly so that none of the part touching the table can vibrate, otherwise the end sticking over does not vibrate well.

The same principle applies to the way a reed vibrates on a mouthpiece. Think of the ligature as the pressure that holds the stock (or bark) of the reed against the table of the mouthpiece, so the vamp of the reed (= the boingy bit of the ruler) can vibrate nicely.

Saxophone ligatures have developed a long way since the days when clarinetists would just wind a piece of cord or leather thong around the reed to secure it to the mouthpiece (but some people still swear by this method). But the function is the same. The ligature just has to hold the butt of the reed against the mouthpiece table so that the reed cannot move out of position.

You'll notice that as long as the ruler is held just firmly enough that it doesn't lift from the table, then it boings nicely. However much more pressure you exert the boing does not change.

Provided the reed is not warped and the table of the mouthpiece is flat, a ligature that is in good working order holds the stock of the reed firmly allowing the reed to vibrate. Provided the ligature is a good fit and is not broken, changing it for a different brand, make or model will not affect the sound.

When might it make a difference?​

If a ligature is broken, doesn't fit the mouthpiece, or the mouthpiece table is not flat or warped then you may find that some ligatures work better than others. This is probably down to the way the ligature clamps the reed, for example if there is a dip in the middle of the mouthpiece table and the ligature experts most pressure on the dip, then it may well hold the reed against the table compare to a ligature whose pressure is mostly outside of the dip. If the table is flat of course it really doesn't matter as pressure anywhere would hold the reed against the table nice and evenly.

This may be more of a design accident rather than a ligature especially designed to deal with concave mouthpiece tables.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGLMyCg04s

If a reed is swollen, there may be a difference​

Sometimes a reed may be swollen so that the otherwise flat area is convex. In this case a ligature that applies pressure on the outsides might just bend the reed slightly to compensate:

This could be what leads people to think a ligature makes a difference. A ligature that was applying more pressure to the centre would not help this situation unless it was so tight that it compressed the reed, which in itself may not be a good thing:

Hence they think the first ligature was "better."

So it's important to make sure the table of the reed is flat.

What if the mouthpiece table is not flat?​

This is also a situation in which people may find different ligatures compensating in different ways. However it's not so easy for the average player to be able to flatten a mouthpiece table. Again this may lead people to think one ligature is "better" than another. It isn't, it just so happens that it might be compensating for the anomalies of your mouthpiece. More in the video above.

 

[Nick Wyver]

If you believe it will, then it possibly will. Otherwise - no difference.

Somebody will come along in a minute with an opposite point of view.

 

[old git]

How did you know?

The ligature is the most IMPORTANT part of the saxophone assembly. It effects the operation of all other parts. Mk Vl sound terrible without the correct ligature. Mouthpieces, reeds, pad lift, finish and bore size are virtually immaterial in comparison with the ligature.

The only part of the instrument package that has a greater affect on the sound is the strap as proved by Schlurr and Handcock in their famous klystron analysis experiments at South London Technical College prior to its promotion to the University of the South Bank. That is when the original records of the experiment were lost.

 

[half diminished]

This subject has been pretty much done to death here and most of the 'authoritative' views would suggest that there is little if any difference between them all. Some people use laccy bands and they work! Bit like the raw brass vs lac vs silver plated argument. Buy one that fits properly, and fit it properly. get one you like the look of but don't be disappointed if it's no better, or worse that the others you've tried.

Of course others may have a different opinion. FWIW I used a Rovner Dark and switched to a FL Ultimate at 4 times the price, convinced it sounded better but having tried the Rovner again since I can't spot any difference between them though the FL looks way cooler and does hold the reed a little tighter if I want it to - which I don't

 

[AndyG]

I would tend to agree that they dont make any difference. I recently changed the gold laquered one that came with my new mouthpiece for a rovner, only because the screws felt a bit weak and I like the fact that the rovner doesn't scratch the mouthpiece. It also seems easier to assemble. Soundwise.....no different.

 

[Jules]

Will the ligature make it a bit easier - more comfortable - to play. How does the Rovner affect one's sound, if at all?
Thanks,
Blu

The issue here isn't really about changing sound, it's about changing response. I personally don't reckon any lig is really going to make what comes out of your sax vary to any significant degree but they can assist (or hinder) quite a bit how you actually produce the noise in the first place....
BTW_ Harmonica blue... another gob iron player in our midst! I salute you!

 

[Justin Chune]

A spare lig is a handy thing to have.

Jim.

 

[Andante cantabile]

If you believe it will, then it possibly will. Otherwise - no difference.

Somebody will come along in a minute with an opposite point of view.

Too right. If you don't believe it will, then it won't. Otherwise the same.

 

[Young Col]

I use a Rovner. It is easier to adjust and change reeds, having just one screw, rather than the usual metal two screw ones. Plus it doesn't scratch mouthpiece. I doubt it makes much difference to the sound, but it does look cool.

As to my highly 'steamed friend OG, I hope no-one is questioning his integrity. He is holdng together quite well. Anyway,I went to South London Technical College and witnessed the aforsaid experiment. I don't think the records were lost so much as burnt one cold night in the adjacent Mulberry Bush pub, when the College was closing down. As did the pub when the students had gone....
YC

 

[TomMapfumo]

If you believe Nick Wyver, you'll believe anything!


Decent fitting ligatures help produce a better sound than ill fitting ones.

One screw ligatures, like the Rovner, are generally easier to fit than two screw ligatures.

Some ligatures are more likely to mark your mouthpiece - metal more so, material less so.

Metal ligatures can usually sound brighter, material ligatures sound mellower/more muted.

I am one of those people that can detect differences in sound between ligatures, but it is A. Subjective & B. May not matter in the wider scheme of things.

Best advice I could give is to have at least 2 ligatures (you've always got a spare!) and see whether you prefer one or other overall for fit, use, sound etc. As Pete once said, he has never crushed a material ligature!. Most can be bought at £20 or less.

Love to all
Tom😎

 

[Nick Wyver]

If you believe Nick Wyver, you'll believe anything!

🙂))🙂))

<big kissy smiley>

 

[Justin Chune]

I can remember a chancer, on ebay, selling Jubilee type hose clips as ligatures. They were the type with the thumb screw. Did anybody buy one?

Jim.

 

[Young Col]

That's a good wheeze Jim. I've got several of those spare as I use them on the pipes on my pond filters. Trouble is they are one inch or more wide. Still, they'd do for a bari or bass sax. Any offers?
YC

 

[kevgermany]

That's a good wheeze Jim. I've got several of those spare as I use them on the pipes on my pond filters. Trouble is they are one inch or more wide. Still, they'd do for a bari or bass sax. Any offers?
YC

You could pack them out with garden hose split lengthwise. Saves the ligs marking the mouthpiece!

 

[old git]

You could pack them out with garden hose split lengthwise. Saves the ligs marking the mouthpiece!

Thinks (Oh! The pain) If you could shape the split hosepipe to look like a reed, it might work.

NEW ONE PIECE REED AND LIGATURE COMBINED.
All your problems solved.

Now how much and what percentage to publicly claim to go to Pete's charities? We'd be gone by the time the payment was due.

Any Nigerian Bank like to finance this?

 

[Young Col]

Great idea Kev. We could flog them down the market Bill. Half for Pete's charity and half for your Keep Croydon's Sheltered Housing Wardens fighting fund (blank cheques gratefully accepted).
YC

 

[Jules]

🙂))🙂))

<big kissy smiley>

You don't want to be picking a fight with nick- he's about 7' tall! 🙂

 

[TomMapfumo]

Ah! So in England you measure people from the neck down...:shocked:;}

You lot never cease to amaze me......

Kind regards
Tom😎

 

[zootsaxenberger]

Oh Dear this is all getting a little edgy.
the question of what lig goes best with what mouthpiece is probably one of the hottest debates around, so here goes , I'll add my ten cents worth.
my personal view is that the biggest single factor in a sax players tone, phrasing,overal presentation, is each individual player.
I cant think off hand,of any other instrument that is so effected by the physical attributes of the player, I.E. the size and shape of the oral cavity, which dictates an awful lot of how we sound.
so does the ligature effect how the sax responds? probably to a degree but not as much as we often believe it does, otherwise why would we all have draws full of the blessed things,bought in the vain hope that they would propel us light years forward as players?

 

[AlanU]

I wasn't going to get into this argument, but.

I think a ligature can influence the sound enormously. I've read, in various places, the opinion that the nearer the player the more difference a change makes. It makes sense to me, the rest is the instrument which has its own characteristics.

So, we have the mouthpiece, the reed and the ligature.
Let's assume the mouthpiece has the qualities you are looking for and the table is level. The reed is perfect, so all that's needed is to hold the two together.
Simple, except the usual brass ligature wraps around the mouthpice and only really applies pressure at the sides of the reed, crimping the sides together. How can that help it lay flat on the table? There has to be conflict.
The ligature that comes with the Metal Otto Link having a single screw pushing up a rather flimsy plate leaves a hefty dent on the reed. So that isn't applying a very even pressure is it.

The answer has to be the cradle approach of the 'Rovner' type ligature, where the nasty screwing and clamping is not inflicted on the blissful union of mouthpiece and reed.

I think what we have now is an effective combination, without all that interference from lousy ligatures.
If it sounds too dark/mellow/whatever for you a brighter mouthpiece may be an option.

ps. all new mouthpieces benefit enormously by having the table levelled. Most are not very flat straight out of the box and can be easily improved.