Tech/maintenance cork for mouthpieces - no alternatives yet?

[Targa]

Yes...I've tested them and also others with some ribs pattern and various colours.

I had to look back at what had been mentioned as that brought a different idea which I certainly have no intention of testing.

 

[Dr G]

I wouldn't dare (much) it feels too barbaric to widen the bore of some vintage MP I use.
Sometimes, I avoid certain MPs in view of the fact it would be a real struggle inserting them in certain necks - an elegant solution would be 2 necks for each sax....one to accomodate the narrower bores the other for the widers' - yes, I have too many saxes and too many MPs and never found the right set up....

Every GOOD solution starts with an analysis of the problem. Another elegant solution is to find a mouthpiece that works, then commit.

Back to the silicone sleeve concept:

1) How does the silicone know which interface is supposed to slip? Mouthpiece/sleeve vs sleeve/tube?

2) I don’t see any of these “solutions” presented in a geometry that results in a cylinder, hence moving the mouthpiece further up the sleeve will always create more force and cause the sleeve to bunch up.

Personal observation of someone that has been playing for 50+ years: Cork works really well - even better if properly applied.

 

[stitch]

2) I don’t see any of these “solutions” presented in a geometry that results in a cylinder

Silicone sleeve over cork. Sorted!

 

[turf3]

Every GOOD solution starts with an analysis of the problem. Another elegant solution is to find a mouthpiece that works, then commit.

Back to the silicone sleeve concept:

1) How does the silicone know which interface is supposed to slip? Mouthpiece/sleeve vs sleeve/tube?

2) I don’t see any of these “solutions” presented in a geometry that results in a cylinder, hence moving the mouthpiece further up the sleeve will always create more force and cause the sleeve to bunch up.

Personal observation of someone that has been playing for 50+ years: Cork works really well - even better if properly applied.

I guess one can adhere the sleeve to the neck. Is RTV silicone effective as an adhesive for cured silicone rubber? (Genuine question here.)

I have already posted, and been excoriated for doing so, that soft elastomers like silicone are the very devil to machine. About the only way to size these silicone sleeves, or any other material like them, is going to be to freeze in liquid N2 and then work fast. Real fast. The hope of course is that the very softness of the silicone rubber means sizing won't be needed. I suppose that's the idea for not needing to make the OD of the sleeve cylindrical when installed.

Now I have some experience with these very low-durometer elastomers and another characteristic is that they are VERY "sticky". Coefficient of friction is very high. Shove a mouthpiece onto one of these without lots of an appropriate lubricant, and you can expect it'll be holy you-know to get it back off without peeling it off the neck, or worst of all getting it rolled up or folded over itself inside the bore, putting you into the position of "Can't go further on, can't go back either". So you'd better keep that bad boy lubed up.

Of course, the best lube is probably a silicone lubricant, which will also mean that any surface that gets contaminated with it will require extensive cleaning if you ever want anything to stick to it again. LIke, say, when you decide to just go for the $15 it costs to have the local shop install a neck cork.

Now considering that you can solve the "different IDs of mouthpieces" issue with PTFE tape ($6.99 for a roll), or a piece of paper wrapped around the cork ($0.00 for whatever piece of paper's in your wallet today - old gas receipt, etc.), I'm going to agree that this is a solution in search of a problem.

But what do I know?

 

[PigSquealer]

I guess one can adhere the sleeve to the neck. Is RTV silicone effective as an adhesive for cured silicone rubber? (Genuine question here.)

Great question ! Will look to see what grade RTV I have to test with.

 

[syevad]

those on the left aren't uncooked macaroni's pasta but silicone's cutoff from coils sold online (much cheaper than the snazzy coloured ones to the right and do work better in my view and many sizes and thickness to choose from.
In the middle are the remnants of what was my version of the Warbuton's method. Basically you install bit by bit until you reach the required overall lenght. As you might notice one of the rings has been damaged by the thru and fro of the mouthpieces...as I mentioned, it worked so well initially I had an eureka moment...
Back to the old trusted cork.

 

[PigSquealer]

That material on left looks like surgical tubing ? Dunno what the composition is?

 

[syevad]

@Dr G and @turf3 " Another elegant solution is to find a mouthpiece that works, then commit...."
Commit? Yeah - the word alone frightens me...
I remember many years ago I was about to sell a Beechler thinking it was too bright/sharp...now its one of my favourites. So many similar examples...you think you've found the right mouthpiece or setup not realizing there were many other factors affection your "choice" or "sensation"....even the humidity level of the day and your mood too (just a few examples in the equation).
I mean...after all these years I'm keeping a sort of system - top rows for the best, bottom for the worst...I'm getting there but so many times these slots have been changed...

 

[syevad]

That material on left looks like surgical tubing ? Dunno what the composition is?

yes, you are spot on.

 

[turf3]

@turf3 " Another elegant solution is to find a mouthpiece that works, then commit...."
Commit? Yeah - the word alone frightens me...
I remember many years ago I was about to sell a Beechler thinking it was too bright/sharp...now its one of my favourites. So many similar examples...you think you've found the right mouthpiece or setup not realizing there were many other factors affection your "choice" or "sensation"....even the humidity level of the day and your mood too (just a few examples in the equation).
I mean...after all these years I'm keeping a sort of system - top rows for the best, bottom for the worst...I'm getting there but so many times these slots have been changed...

Well, I wasn't the one who said "find one then commit" but I'm pretty much in that camp. I've tried several different pieces, but I've got one each for everything except tenor where I have two - one for everything that isn't loud screaming rock and roll, and one for everything that is.

C soprano - same MP since ~2018
Bb soprano - same MP since ~1998
Alto - same MP since ~1995
Tenor - same jazz MP since 1978, same rock MP since 1981 or 82
Baritone - same MP since ~2007
Bass - same MP since ~2015

So for the main horns alto tenor and baritone, I haven't changed mouthpieces on any of them for 18 years.

Give it a try!

The only time I have reed or mouthpiece trouble is when I haven't been practicing enough.

 

[PigSquealer]

Chops don't come in a box.

Usually they’re served on a plate with a bit of applesauce.

 

[syevad]

Well, I wasn't the one who said "find one then commit" but I'm pretty much in that camp. I've tried several different pieces, but I've got one each for everything except tenor where I have two - one for everything that isn't loud screaming rock and roll, and one for everything that is.

C soprano - same MP since ~2018
Bb soprano - same MP since ~1998
Alto - same MP since ~1995
Tenor - same jazz MP since 1978, same rock MP since 1981 or 82
Baritone - same MP since ~2007
Bass - same MP since ~2015

So for the main horns alto tenor and baritone, I haven't changed mouthpieces on any of them for 18 years.

Give it a try!

The only time I have reed or mouthpiece trouble is when I haven't been practicing enough.

it's not about "trouble" it's about fun...it's fun experimenting.

 

[Dr G]

it's not about "trouble" it's about fun...it's fun experimenting.

Yeah, I get that. I’ve a friend that has dozens of tenors and likely 100+ mouthpieces.

I know there exist many talented players that collect mouthpieces and instruments. I wonder how many good saxophone players USE (different than how many they own) more than a few mouthpieces for a given horn. My number is two - one is dedicated to classical (Morgan 6C), and I cover everything else on the other (Phil-Tone Intrepid 7*). Time and again in the forums, I observe that the people using the most mouthpieces are often the same ones that are having issues with technique, response, intonation, tone, etc. If you stick with one mouthpiece long enough to learn how it works best with your horn (I use only one tenor), you eliminate so many issues just by focussed experience. For me, the fun is in the music.

 

[PigSquealer]

People whom couldn’t play a violin make great fiddle players.
I enjoy the challenge here of thinking how a different material could work. Oddly cork has characteristics that are difficult to match. Just like trying to make a better pad system. Just imagine makers 100 or 200 years ago developing these materials and systems. No internet, limited resources to study from. Just raw talent. Observe the task at hand and make it work with whatever.
Fish skin for clarinet pads over wool felt !! How many tries did that take ??

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Polyurethane (Urethane)
Modern skate wheels.
Wonder if this material, could be used?
Comes in various levels of hardness (durometer A).
For necks with a rim, maybe a rim like a shotgun choke.
ICE is NICE ⛄️

 

[Woodpad]

Polyurethane ages faster than neoprene an silicone, so it is not the first material I would use.
It is versatile, but once I saw a polyurethane pad that lost its elasticity in around 30 years due to contact with moisture.

 

[Woodpad]

It can last 50 years if you never put a mouthpiece on it 😉 Moderate-usage, repeated on-and-off over several years ? The cork would need changing far sooner than that...Most folks wait until there's damage before replacing but again, that will come sooner than two generations (?)

Until now I never had to cork a crook twice.

 

[Pete Thomas]

but once I saw a polyurethane pad that lost its elasticity in around 30 years due to contact with moisture.

How do you know it was due to moisture and not just old age?

 

[Woodpad]

How do you know it was due to moisture and not just old age?

The tone hole side of the pad was hard but the glued side was still elastic. So it looks like aging due to contact with moisture.

 

[Dr G]

The tone hole side of the pad was hard but the glued side was still elastic. So it looks like aging due to contact with moisture.

Light is an environmental factor in polymer aging as well.