Tech/maintenance cork for mouthpieces - no alternatives yet?

[skeller047]

I think most metal caps have a plastic (perhaps silicone?) insert to seal the bottle top.

Regarding cork, I’m with the “if it ain't broke don’t fix it” crowd. If there is a demonstrably better solution that costs the same or less, it would be in wide use. There doesn’t seem to be one.

Cork in wine bottles deteriorates and crumbles, potentially ruining the wine. That is what is behind the movement toward screw tops. But on a sax neck, cork works just fine.

 

[Targa]

I see less and less cork seals on wine bottles, going to aluminium twist off caps. Perhaps this is a cost savings measure?

But then no more:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o3EUVht1G0

 

[PigSquealer]

Bought on Amazombie a few years ago. The thickness and diameter are all the same. Someday I’ll get to testing the product.

 

[Woodpad]

Why does it need to be water absorbent?

I don’t think it does. I’ve had a synthetic cork on my tenor for the last 10 years or so with no problems.

The main advantage of cork is its can endure more than 50 years (if you don't leave the mouthpiece on).
Most synthetic material change by oxidation uv and moisture and should be replaced before 50 years. There are exceptions but those are not systematically used in saxophones.
The water adsorption is a smaller perk. Cork can swell around 10% by water. When a mouthpiece has a lose fit at the beginning it will have a better fit after a few hours playing.

 

[thomsax]

Warburton modular sax neck system is interesting. Needs some changes on the neck but no more cork trouble. If you use different mouthpieces with different bores just change the O-rings? I guess it's solving some troubles with playing modern (long) mouthpieces on shorter necks? Expensive ... and I need help from a tech as well. Have anybody here on CS installed this system?

 

[jazzdoh]

Warburton modular sax neck system is interesting. Needs some changes on the neck but no more cork trouble. If you use different mouthpieces with different bores just change the O-rings? I guess it's solving some troubles with playing modern (long) mouthpieces on shorter necks? Expensive ... and I need help from a tech as well. Have anybody here on CS installed this system?
View attachment 31805

This was a good few years ago, it never took off and if i believe right was quite expensive.

 

[Woodpad]

No traces of this modular neck at

Warburton Music Products

Warburton Music Products

warburton-usa.com

 

[thomsax]

The article was written in summer 2023 so maybe the modular sax neck systeme is out of production?

 

[Pete Thomas]

No traces of this modular neck at

Warburton Music Products

Warburton Music Products

warburton-usa.com

I’m not surprised. It did seem a bit like a solution looking for a problem.

 

[thomsax]

I’m not surprised. It did seem a bit like a solution looking for a problem.

On the other side a problem needs a solution. To make new saxes with a changeable neck/mouthpiece connection is interesting. But I think it's must be done at the factory. No DIY work.

 

[jazzdoh]

On the other side a problem needs a solution.

Why, i know lots of sax players not one has ever mention cork as a problem, reeds, mouthpieces yes but never cork.

 

[Woodpad]

I’m not surprised. It did seem a bit like a solution looking for a problem.

True, it is the job of marketing to avoid such mistakes.

 

[syevad]

Warburton modular sax neck system is interesting. Needs some changes on the neck but no more cork trouble. If you use different mouthpieces with different bores just change the O-rings? I guess it's solving some troubles with playing modern (long) mouthpieces on shorter necks? Expensive ... and I need help from a tech as well. Have anybody here on CS installed this system?
View attachment 31805

wow...this is a lot more involving than I thought - I thought it was about the use of o-rings but you'd need to buy a special neck (or modify an existing one?)....no wonder many wouldn't be bothered.
With a bit of diy anyone can experiment with o-rings - in my case I've used a combination of silicone's tubes and o-rings. The sleeves are about 7mm and a minute gap is left to accomodate the o-ring snugly enough to keep them in place when sliding the mouthpiece in and out. My diy version looks just like the picture above only imagine cream coloured silicon tubes instead of silver chrome metal (and no neck chanbes...it can be done on any existing neck).
It works great for a while, but the o-rings I've used started deteriorate quickly - I've used basic o-rings for diy plumbing.
Maybe with some special o-rings and lubricants it is possible to use this system a bit longer but the stress is concentrated on a relatively small surface...

 

[syevad]

Why, i know lots of sax players not one has ever mention cork as a problem, reeds, mouthpieces yes but never cork.

eeer...what about moi?

 

[syevad]

Bought on Amazombie a few years ago. The thickness and diameter are all the same. Someday I’ll get to testing the product.

View attachment 31792

Yes...I've tested them and also others with some ribs pattern and various colours. The one for alto didn't work well - the moisture gets underneath and started to slide out of position - also too much friction when inserting the MP...even fitting the sleeve alson it was a pita. On a soprano it was a bit better.....I've waiting to test on some tenors...

 

[syevad]

addendum - Doesn't have to be exactly a 'fixed' setup. I know plenty of players who use, say , two different mouthpieces on the same cork/neck. But I can see where if you do more than that, it'd be an issue.

Quite honestly....not sure you were just saying this in passing or not but if I had my favorite three or four I kept swapping, I WOULD just do what you noted : have the shank ends bored so they are all close enough to each other to have all work.

I know this might sound brutal to some, and I wonder what @Phil might think of this idea, where it is ghastly or not (?) Seems to me as mouthpieces alread have that slight variance in interior diameter there, across brands and models...doing something like that (relatively miniscule (?) at least to my sensibilities) would have no adverse effect....(?)

I wouldn't dare (much) it feels too barbaric to widen the bore of some vintage MP I use.
Sometimes, I avoid certain MPs in view of the fact it would be a real struggle inserting them in certain necks - an elegant solution would be 2 necks for each sax....one to accomodate the narrower bores the other for the widers' - yes, I have too many saxes and too many MPs and never found the right set up....

 

[Woodpad]

Have you thought about using flexible tubes? When you make a wide spiral on the crook and keep it anchored it can accommodate different mouthpiece sizes. The first two loops should be connected to make it airtight.

 

[JayeNM]

I wouldn't dare (much) it feels too barbaric to widen the bore of some vintage MP I use.
Sometimes, I avoid certain MPs in view of the fact it would be a real struggle inserting them in certain necks - an elegant solution would be 2 necks for each sax....one to accomodate the narrower bores the other for the widers' - yes, I have too many saxes and too many MPs and never found the right set up....

It would be a bold decision by most people's standards...but the way I look at it...it likely does not effect the performance of the mouthpiece (I was hoping @Phil could chime in on this to confirm actually) , can be done very precisely by a mouthpiece person, and would be more feasible IF you felt those 'pieces were keepers for the rest of your playing days.

The second thing I would say is this...considering the incredibly miniscule amount of material that tweak would be removing, some people could even arguably be fine with not even stating that mod had been done should they sell in the future. Not suggesting one do this, I am always for full disclosure but honestly, it seems hard to argue that the 'modification' has decreased either resale value or performance.

But again, if one has a tendency to go thru a revolving door of mouthpieces over time, probably not the greatest option....

 

[JayeNM]

I think most metal caps have a plastic (perhaps silicone?) insert to seal the bottle top.

Thank you for that....bandmates always LAUGH at me when I stick a half full wine bottle onto my neck at break...and I always found that a bit cruel of them.

The main advantage of cork is its can endure more than 50 years (if you don't leave the mouthpiece on).

It can last 50 years if you never put a mouthpiece on it 😉 Moderate-usage, repeated on-and-off over several years ? The cork would need changing far sooner than that...Most folks wait until there's damage before replacing but again, that will come sooner than two generations (?)

 

[JayeNM]

Warburton modular sax neck system is interesting. Needs some changes on the neck but no more cork trouble. If you use different mouthpieces with different bores just change the O-rings? I guess it's solving some troubles with playing modern (long) mouthpieces on shorter necks? Expensive ... and I need help from a tech as well. Have anybody here on CS installed this system?

I LIKE the concept...looks like it didn't catch on, but honestly, I like the idea.