Tech/maintenance Why have pads had the same design for 150 years?

[mizmar]

Shouldn't that be a guaranteed leak free system with automatic repair function?

Well, normally guarantees are like "Guaranteed for 10 years", or however long, + small print. Except for nerds, no one need care how the manufacturer achieves that.

 

[LostCircuits]

You can find a lot of damaged tone holes on ebay if you want to study the subject.

I have not been able to buy them separately, though. But I keep finding holes in my shoes and pockets 🙂

 

[Vetinari]

Buy holes in bulk... buy a sax.

 

[Woodpad]

Well, normally guarantees are like "Guaranteed for 10 years", or however long, + small print. Except for nerds, no one need care how the manufacturer achieves that.

All engineers are nerds?

 

[mizmar]

All engineers are nerds?

That wasn't the meat of my reply.

 

[Woodpad]

That wasn't the meat of my reply.

I was distracted by the gravy and taters.

 

[Targa]

Well, normally guarantees are like "Guaranteed for 10 years", or however long, + small print. Except for nerds, no one need care how the manufacturer achieves that.

Guarantees for anything aren't worth the paper they are written on.
It is usually against 'manufacturing defects' and then they avoid that with 'natural wear and tear'.
The only real 'guarantee' is the legal 12 month 'fit for purpose' and then you have to prove it isn't.

 

[mizmar]

Guarantees for anything aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Often. Sure. But then adding "with automatic repair function" adds nothing

 

[Pete Thomas]

The only real 'guarantee' is the legal 12 month 'fit for purpose' and then you have to prove it isn't.

Not Fit for purpose claims are not limited to 12 months though are they?

 

[Targa]

Not Fit for purpose claims are not limited to 12 months though are they?

You're right, it can be longer depending on the item.
I should have used a different phrase. I think under the statutory 12 month 'it's broken', can't think of a better expression at the moment, the first six months the retailer has to accept the customer's word unless they can prove otherwise and the second six months the customer has to show it.
That's what I think it is but haven't looked into it for a few years.

 

[Dr G]

A “guaranteed leak-free” pad is not without compromises. Beware what you ask for.

 

[Woodpad]

You're right, it can be longer depending on the item.
I should have used a different phrase. I think under the statutory 12 month 'it's broken', can't think of a better expression at the moment, the first six months the retailer has to accept the customer's word unless they can prove otherwise and the second six months the customer has to show it.
That's what I think it is but haven't looked into it for a few years.

So if you have a sticky pad you can claim it in the first 6 months and if the seller refuses he has to prove that you made it sticky?

 

[Targa]

So if you have a sticky pad you can claim it in the first 6 months and if the seller refuses he has to prove that you made it sticky?

Depends what you mean by 'sticky'.
If due to mechanical malfunction, yes.

 

[Dr G]

Depends what you mean by 'sticky'.
If due to mechanical malfunction, yes.

A mechanical malfunction such as a binding key could be the result of the player improperly picking up the instrument and bending the mechanism.

 

[Targa]

A mechanical malfunction such as a binding key could be the result of the player improperly picking up the instrument and bending the mechanism.

It could be due to the player dropping it when the cat chases the budgie round the room.
However I was referring to what might be considered a manufacturing fault and a warranty claim putting aside carelessness or acts of god and cats, which is the same thing.

 

[Woodpad]

It could be due to the player dropping it when the cat chases the budgie round the room.
However I was referring to what might be considered a manufacturing fault and a warranty claim putting aside carelessness or acts of god and cats, which is the same thing.

Some pads are inherently sticky, and installing them unaware of there sticky nature in a saxophone can be classified as a manufacturing fault. In the first 6 months carelessness, acts of gods and acts of cats have to be proven by the manufacturer?

 

[Dr G]

Some pads are inherently sticky, and installing them unaware of there sticky nature in a saxophone can be classified as a manufacturing fault. In the first 6 months carelessness, acts of gods and acts of cats have to be proven by the manufacturer?

Some saxophones are ugly - that is a manufacturing fault as well.

 

[Woodpad]

Back to the original question: Why have pads had the same design for more than 200 years.
As a new product developer I was exposed to marketing people and there argot. They would make an analysis like:

Product

The leather pad for saxophones is in a cash cow phase. There are some small improvements in the last 50 years but nothing major. An alternative product should be comparable or better in quality and should have an important unique selling point (USP).

Most discussed quality boxes are:

1. touch
2. closure
3. durability, reliability
4. sound,

Most boxes have subjective qualities which enhances product loyalty. To counter this loyalty the USP must be huge.
The USP of the padless was its name, It was different in sound so the USP was not big enough to counter loyalty.
Top tones didn't have an USP but where cheaper to install.

Price

Cheap pads and expensive pads can vary with a factor 20. Price doesn't seem to be the most important P.

Place

Factories and technicians, DIY is a small part of the market.

Promotion

See place.

In short Place is the main factor in marketing. A USP big enough to counter loyalty is only conceivable in the niche DIY market.

 

[Pete Thomas]

In short Place is the main factor in marketing. A USP big enough to counter loyalty is only conceivable in the niche DIY market.

I don’t understand what this means. Surely a big enough USP that was effectively communicated could affect the trade (manufacturers and techs) hugely.

 

[Pete Effamy]

There are 8 pages in this thread and it must have been said before, but the fact that no (major) manufacturer has introduced something (rather drastically) different suggests that there isn’t anything viable. I can’t believe that this is not looked into on a fairly regular basis - every 10/20 years? (Marked by new young whippersnappers joining the company).