Mouthpieces Who believes in Link Chops?

[Targa]

The thing that puts me off with the links I've tried is the lack of flexibility. It feels to blow one way and one way only.

Is that from the narrow end to the wide end?

 

[Dr G]

Yes, I believe in “Link chops”. To me the concept is about developing embouchure and airstream to the degree that one can get the widest form of expression from a tenor.

 

[LostCircuits]

I agree with @turf3 about “saxophone chops”. Getting the most out of tenor and Link vastly improved my alto playing. But Links are notorious for being inconsistent. My current mouthpiece is a Link inspired Phil-Tone Tribute; it is neither tubby nor dead. It’s an amalgam of Theo Wanne’s and Phil Engelman’s favorite Links, and it’s everything a Link wants to be.

That's really the crux about links. I had several metal STM alto MPCs and they were all over the place. One of them I loved, the other one was "Katzendreck". Coincidentally I had used the good one pretty much all the time but for a gig, I took a second as back-up, with the reed already wet, mounted, etc. Then 15 min into the gig my original reed split and I swapped MPCs. Really bad idea.

I marked both of them and eventually moved on. A few years later a local player came by to try and possibly buy an alto piece and at some point I remembered the box with the two links. He couldn't play the "bad one" but when he put on the good one it was like somebody had opened the curtains. By far the best sounding (for him) of all pieces he tried. And the easiest to play.

 

[jonf]

One of them I loved, the other one was "Katzendreck".

I had to look that one up, made me smile when I worked it out.

 

[Pete Thomas]

The Links were different, I just couldn't get away from their inherent dull resistance.

That's what I find with them. In order to get any kind of brightness or sparkle from them I have to have it too far in my mouth to get any kind of versatility. Maybe that is link chops, just shove the further in you Cakehole, however when I've heard people talk about it sometimes it as if it's hidden art that some of us are just not up to it.

 

[Jimmymack]

I had a Link when I played alto and although it was hard to blow it had a good sound and I played it for years. Haven't gone back to try one on tenor and probably won't although I bought a Retro Revival Bob Sheppard recently that I assume is based on a Link and that's easy to blow and sounds good although it's a bit tame for my tastes.

Link chops doesn't really mean anything to me, it either blows or it doesn't. The biggest problem seems to be that a lot of Links don’t.

 

[turf3]

I dunno, I've been playing Meyers for a very long time, Links are basically a version of the same basic design. I certainly don't find them "dead" or "stuffy" at all. I mean, they don't cut like a high baffle piece, of course. But it's not like one of those dill pickle pieces that feel like blowing into an old gym sock.

I still say if you've got a well developed airstream embouchure and voicing, you'll sound fine on a LInk, there's nothing special or exotic about it. You might PREFER something else but this idea that the Link mouthpiece is some kind of arcana that you have to be initiated into, on a dark night at a crossroads, by a big guy with horns and a tail - buncha nonsense.

 

[jazzdoh]

I have never really got on with Links or Meyers, their quality over recent years has been questionable, I have had limited success with earlier Links on tenor including EB's and Florida's but never found one that blowed me away but whether there is a thing "Link chops" I wouldn't know, like Jimmy for me a mouthpiece has to blow well or it doesn't and too many of these mass produced mouthpieces just don't.

 

[LostCircuits]

I have never really got on with Links or Meyers, their quality over recent years has been questionable, I have had limited success with earlier Links on tenor including EB's and Florida's but never found one that blowed me away but whether there is a thing "Link chops" I wouldn't know, like Jimmy for me a mouthpiece has to blow well or it doesn't and too many of these mass produced mouthpieces just don't.

I have an old Meyer and I have a new Meyer and they are supposed to be the same but the old one is one of the best alto pieces I have ever seen and the new one ranked in the bottom 10%. I evened out the rails and it's a good piece now but the factory new condition was "questionable" at best.

 

[Hoosierken]

I found an Otto Link Eburnated Bar in the case of an IBIC tenor that I recently purchased. It looked like someone had dragged its face across the cement. I sent it to Mojo Mouthpiece Work and Keith was able to reface it. Though it and a modern Tone Edge 6 look very similar they play and sound very different. The vintage OL is much brighter and more open. The TE6 is stuffy and dull. I have been struggling with sound for quite some time and the vintage OL sounds so much better to me than any of my other MPs.

 

[jonf]

Yes, I believe in “Link chops”. To me the concept is about developing embouchure and airstream to the degree that one can get the widest form of expression from a tenor.

Doesn't that apply to the whole process of learning to play sax, on any mouthpiece? Not sure it's specific to Link. 'Link chops' or just 'chops'?

 

[Saxlicker]

Doesn't that apply to the whole process of learning to play sax, on any mouthpiece? Not sure it's specific to Link. 'Link chops' or just 'chops'?

Thats kind of the whole point of the original question. We all know chops will develop with experience, practice, curiosity, discipline and even change.
But for many it seems that a Link can still fail to do it for so many. Then you balance that against those who sound great on links and / or like links and it seems it's not so straight forward.
I'm not suggesting mystique, a new level that only some can unlock.
I'm just asking does this LINK CHOPS description thats been around for years have some justification. It does seem to me that many miss what ever it is that makes 'em go. I did for 20+ years and I never went out of my way to change that, and I got on with so many different mouthpieces then one day I suddenly got on with a couple of links for the first time and now I get on with so many of them.
Perhaps then, sub conscious muscle memory and development/journey fate takes your towards it or away from it with some weird need to be more specific in that journey.
I know that will sound crazy to some even to myself.

 

[jazzdoh]

I have an old Meyer and I have a new Meyer and they are supposed to be the same but the old one is one of the best alto pieces I have ever seen and the new one ranked in the bottom 10%. I evened out the rails and it's a good piece now but the factory new condition was "questionable" at best.

I have never played a very early Meyer eg Meyer Bros or New York and wouldn't want to afford one now, but I have had a few 70s/80s Meyers that have been much better than the current/recent ones but I seem to get on better with the Meyer clones than the Meyer's themselves.

 

[stefank]

That's what I find with them. In order to get any kind of brightness or sparkle from them I have to have it too far in my mouth to get any kind of versatility. Maybe that is link chops, just shove the further in you Cakehole, however when I've heard people talk about it sometimes it as if it's hidden art that some of us are just not up to it.

That sends me off on a bit of an off-topic tangent. I bought a few different Morgan mouthpieces about 16 to 18 years ago, back when Ralph was still alive, and did a bit of reading on both him and then at the time. It seemed that one of the common comments he made when people returned mouthpieces for adjustment was that they were not putting enough of them in their mouth, no doubt made after viewing the position of tooth marks. So over the years I've made a bit of an effort to put a bit more in my mouth than might have initially felt natural, and I think in general it does help the mouthpiece "come to life". Other opinions may vary!

 

[Pete Effamy]

That sends me off on a bit of an off-topic tangent. I bought a few different Morgan mouthpieces about 16 to 18 years ago, back when Ralph was still alive, and did a bit of reading on both him and then at the time. It seemed that one of the common comments he made when people returned mouthpieces for adjustment was that they were not putting enough of them in their mouth, no doubt made after viewing the position of tooth marks. So over the years I've made a bit of an effort to put a bit more in my mouth than might have initially felt natural, and I think in general it does help the mouthpiece "come to life". Other opinions may vary!

Yes, I wonder if the vast majority don’t play the “full facing “ of their mouthpiece.
Some big-name players have played like this tho, so it isn’t the whole story.
If you’re after the biggest, most open sound that there is to be had from your mouthpiece then you’re going to need to play the whole facing, maybe with the softest reed that you can make work for whatever type of playing you’re doing, and an “open” embouchure.

 

[Phil]

I think its pretty simple. If you have a good piece its going to work well from the start. Over time you will learn to shape the tone to get the colors and tones you want. This really applies to most any piece. There are one trick ponies out there but a link is not one of them. If you have to develop crazy chops for a specific mpc to sound good it likely has problems. Personally, I find it more work to get a good tone on a high baffle piece than on a Link but that might just be me. You should not have to stand on your head and pray to the reed gods to get a good sound. If you want a GREAT sound...well, stand on your head

 

[jonf]

Thats kind of the whole point of the original question. We all know chops will develop with experience, practice, curiosity, discipline and even change.
But for many it seems that a Link can still fail to do it for so many. Then you balance that against those who sound great on links and / or like links and it seems it's not so straight forward.
I'm not suggesting mystique, a new level that only some can unlock.
I'm just asking does this LINK CHOPS description thats been around for years have some justification. It does seem to me that many miss what ever it is that makes 'em go. I did for 20+ years and I never went out of my way to change that, and I got on with so many different mouthpieces then one day I suddenly got on with a couple of links for the first time and now I get on with so many of them.
Perhaps then, sub conscious muscle memory and development/journey fate takes your towards it or away from it with some weird need to be more specific in that journey.
I know that will sound crazy to some even to myself.

Doesn't actually sound that crazy to me. My comment was really just in response to the one I quoted, rather than your original post. The post I quoted said that there was a belief in 'Link Chops', based on a principle, which to my mind, applies to the whole process of learning to play sax, rather than a specific one.

For what it's worth, having played a number of mouthpieces over the last 42 years, I don't believe there is any specific learning process for Otto Link mouthpieces. My guess is that your experience of getting on with a number of them recently is more down to variations in the samples you've played. Could also be changes in reeds, or other variables.

 

[LostCircuits]

I think its pretty simple. If you have a good piece its going to work well from the start. Over time you will learn to shape the tone to get the colors and tones you want. This really applies to most any piece. There are one trick ponies out there but a link is not one of them. If you have to develop crazy chops for a specific mpc to sound good it likely has problems. Personally, I find it more work to get a good tone on a high baffle piece than on a Link but that might just be me. You should not have to stand on your head and pray to the reed gods to get a good sound. If you want a GREAT sound...well, stand on your head

There is no excuse for a good tone, when you can have a great tone ... Remind me, who used to say that all the time, IIRC his initials were RPC

 

[Dom]

IMO, a lot of (particularly modern) links are bad, and also a lot of people don't learn to play with the proper air support. If one has good support and a strong embouchure, you should be able to make most mouthpieces 'work' - liking it is a different story!

A few years ago, I had the realisation that everyone I was listening to played on a metal Link, (Wayne, Hank Mobley, Coltrane, early Brecker, etc. etc.) so I ordered the Double Ring Legacy from Matt Marantz. Plays like a great link, very well finished and has really allowed me to develop my own sound.

 

[flat7]

I think the saying "link chops" may come from the fact that many links has a low-medium baffle, large chamber and a degree of resistance built into it requiring a developed air stream to work. I have been playing metal links almost exclusively for 27years now. I remember the day when i chosed between a berg larsen and a Otto Link STM 6* that my father brought me. I could not have both. I enjoyed the powerful sound from the Berg but that sultry, slight resistant but at the same time rich sound from the Link had me more intrigued exploring all the possibilities of the Link and so it went!

Now I play a Otto Link Florida USA 8 tip from the 60's. Have a listen: moments.mp3