Saxophones Student Model?

I bought my nickel plate alto in 2010. Played it, busked it, gigged it. A few minor tweaks over the years to keep it going.
It's resting at the moment waiting for a strip, clean and full fettle. Still loved.
Better than some and as good as others way above it's price bracket.
I've no idea what the new ones are like.
 
Does it matter?
Nope. What matters, with any sax, is how it plays. They're made in mainland China, as it happens. I've had a couple of them over the years, for various reasons, and I've found them to play great. Not great like my Yanagisawa saxes, but still very good, and a huge amount better than the Eastern European clunkers I started playing on.
 
a huge amount better than the Eastern European clunkers I started playing on.
Yes, a new or modern G4M is better than an old Amati or Weltklang. But an old Lark, Swallow ..... or other early PRC saxes were junk compared to Amati, Weltklang, B&S Blue Label ..... . I played a G4M tenor (Yani copy) and I was not impressed, An old playable eastern European sax is better than a new unplayable PRC sax.
 
The early Chinese 'bird' saxes - Lark, Swallow and Parrot - were awful, simply awful. But that was a while ago now. I have a bit of a soft spot for an Amati, and B & S Blue Label were good. But comparing modern Chinese made instruments to older student instruments, they stand up well.

One thing about G4M - they do have a slightly odd business model, with little pre-sales quality checking, but an excellent returns policy, so they do seem to get a pretty high rate of returns. Get one in good order and it's a good sax.
 
G4M - they do have a slightly odd business mode
Just different. I reckon they have an amazing contract with DHL (I bought some stuff from then a while ago, they forgot something and it arrived (also) by DHL in good time. If a private person had had to pay that....!) A good warehouse, stock control and close relationships with their suppliers... All of which can add up to it being cheaper to handle returns and replacements than quality control... Especially as most their business is big box stuff and they cover a continent.
 
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When I buy a sax I want to keep it!!! Good return policy ......my money is not going to be on the road. It's not sustainable to ship cheap saxes back and forth because of lack of quality control. My G4M should be stopped already in China. And the dealers/sellers should also inspect/make the sax ready for the market/player. An expensive sax is more money and they also generate back more taxes and fees. I recommend adult player to buy a used sax locally instead of a new ultra cheap sax at a distance. Better for the environment. For most of us, and definitely me included, a used YTS 23/25, Indiana, King 615, Amati, Weltklang .... is ok? My main saxes are made in 1938, 1959 and 1962 and they are probably going to be my main saxes as long as I'm playing. And it's not my saxes that is the limit. It's me.
 
I cannot see the sense in buying a new sax from a seller, or store, that I can'nt have 99% confidence it will play perfectly straight out of the box.

I get it that it may need an adjustment around the 3 month mark, but cannot see the point in wasting time on a boomerang. What do you play when it's been sent back and waiting for the next package to arrive?
 
All those used saxophones mentioned are getting on for half a century old. Some more than that.
They will need some serious fettling. Which, seeing as fettlers are few and far between, will entail shipping.
I've had loads of stuff from G4m over the years. Some broken stuff at greatly reduced price needed only minor fettling. Never had to send anything back.
The pallets of broken horns that used to appear for sale, may have more to do with why the supplier and shipper changed.
Thomann is cheaper these days anyhow.
 
When I buy a sax I want to keep it!!! Good return policy ......my money is not going to be on the road. It's not sustainable to ship cheap saxes back and forth because of lack of quality control. My G4M should be stopped already in China. And the dealers/sellers should also inspect/make the sax ready for the market/player. An expensive sax is more money and they also generate back more taxes and fees. I recommend adult player to buy a used sax locally instead of a new ultra cheap sax at a distance. Better for the environment. For most of us, and definitely me included, a used YTS 23/25, Indiana, King 615, Amati, Weltklang .... is ok? My main saxes are made in 1938, 1959 and 1962 and they are probably going to be my main saxes as long as I'm playing. And it's not my saxes that is the limit. It's me.
I think that's a rather simplistic (if noble) viewpoint.
From a purely financial perspective I think you'll find that cheaper horns generate more tax revenue and support more jobs than expensive ones in the long run.
As for the green credentials - yes, there's probably an uptick in courier miles in respect of returning faulty instruments, but I suspect it's not as much as you think. With a company as large as G4M there's probably any number of couriers going back and forth each day anyway - so the extra mileage would be limited to the distance from the individual to the hub. If you really want to you can add on some non-green points for the extra weight in the vehicle.
And cheap horns have a reasonably long shelf-life. They don't disintegrate into a pile of dust after a couple of decades - they get passed around, tweaked and fiddled with and get progessively cheaper for a first-time buyer. And when they do finally bite the dust, pretty much everything on them is recyclable.
 
I cannot see the sense in buying a new sax from a seller, or store, that I can'nt have 99% confidence it will play perfectly straight out of the box.

I get it that it may need an adjustment around the 3 month mark, but cannot see the point in wasting time on a boomerang. What do you play when it's been sent back and waiting for the next package to arrive?
We all make our own choices in how we buy, and what we do when we get new instruments. I've bought from online suppliers, although when I was choosing a high end tenor, I chose to visit a shop and select an instrument in person. It was an enjoyable part of the process. However, discount online suppliers open up options for those at a different point in the market.

It's a matter of economics. This is a part of what makes it cheap. And they really are cheap, in real terms, compared to when I started playing. My first sax, bought for me by my incredibly generous parents (who couldn't really afford it at the time) was a not-very-good 1970s Buescher. It cost £290, second hand, without a mouthpiece, in 1980. At today's money, that would be £1,467. A basic G4M tenor is £350 new, today, and doing the calculation backwards, that's about £70 at 1980s prices.

It's also not that all of them get returned, just maybe a higher proportion than in dealers which invest in technical staff to check horns are in perfect shape prior to despatch. Even those that do, unless you buy locally and collect in person, you can't be anything like 99% sure they'll play out of the box, as however well set up it is when it leaves the shop, as getting thrown about in the back of a delivery can van can put any sax out of whack.

All of this is really only relevant in the case of G4M for buyers in the UK, and maybe near-continental Europe, where the turnaround time is quick. G4M are based on the outskirts of York, a small city in the middle of the UK with good transport connections. It would only take a few days to return a sax and get a new one sent out. In my case, during that short wait, I'd just play one of my other saxes......

The supply bit is only one part of the whole supply chain, of course. There is large scale low cost manufacture in China, incredibly cheap containerised shipping around the world (it costs more to ship an item from a UK port to its distribution centre than it does to ship it from China to the UK border), e-marketing instead of hugely expensive city centre shops and so on. However, reducing the cost of expensive, highly skilled staff in the UK is a pretty big part of it all.

I am not saying the G4M business model is my favourite economic method. However, it does work, and it's the box-shifters which have democratised musical instrument supply to the extent that pretty much anyone who wants to try playing an instrument can give it a go.
 

Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀

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