Saxophone beginners Specific Aspect of Embouchure ( sorry )

[Vlad]

I guess it's whatever works for you the individual, we're all very different in terms of how our lips, teeth, face etc are..
if I think about it I probably do a kind of bassoon embouchure, I haven't got exactly lots of teeth either 😀!
No doubt a teacher would say ''ooh that's all wrong'' !

 

[wooster]

Well I treated my teacher to a demo of my embouchure the other day and he didn't fuss and seemed to be all right with it. I suspect the internet can make one focus on such things to the extent that it becomes very easy to lose sight of the bigger picture.

 

[ghostler]

I guess it's whatever works for you the individual, we're all very different in terms of how our lips, teeth, face etc are..

I think you clinched it. This is why that one particular mouthpiece faced as it is, works for one person but not for another. It doesn't mean it is a bad mouthpiece, just not suited well for another's embouchure.

We all have different sized mouths, teeth structure, jaw shape and structure, etc.

There just is no "one-size-fits-all" category.

 

[wooster]

Please can someone tell me if I've understood this correctly.

I remember hearing a sax teacher saying that you should play Bb1 and the embouchure you use for that is the one you should keep.

I have also seen many more people saying you should play the mouthpiece and neck and when you make an Ab and there you have your embouchure.

Having read "Taming the Sax" and discovering there is something called "Subtone" and that you shouldn't rely on it to get the lower notes to play, I'm assuming I would be well advised to forget the first piece of advice and stick with the Ab bit. My reasoning; I can play a Bb with a loose embouchure with my mouthpiece jammed in to the required amount but I now feel I would be in the difficult subtone country.

Does this sound about right?

 

[Pete Thomas]

I remember hearing a sax teacher saying that you should play Bb1 and the embouchure you use for that is the one you should keep.

Maybe it worked for that teacher, I’m not sure I could do it.

I have also seen many more people saying you should play the mouthpiece and neck and when you make an Ab and there you have your embouchure.

Again maybe that works for some.

My reasoning; I can play a Bb with a loose embouchure with my mouthpiece jammed in to the required amount

I didn’t understand what you meant by jammed in to the required amount.

 

[wooster]

Maybe it worked for that teacher, I’m not sure I could do it.

Again maybe that works for some.



I didn’t understand what you meant by jammed in to the required amount.

I meant that when I play it presumably too loosely, it comes out flat and I need to stick the mp in further. I assume this is wrong though and means my embouchure is too flabby and will lead to problems elsewhere? I'm assuming that this is the problem with relying on subtone to play the lower notes? Do you mean that it wouldn't work as your embouchure would change for higher and lower notes?

 

[skeller047]

My advice is listen to your teacher and ignore all this random stuff you see on the internet.

These little tricks (what note your mouthpiece plays, what note your mouthpiece and neck plays, keep your embouchure the same) are usually meant to correct a specific problem. Your specific problem seems to be that you are confused by these descriptions. Thus my advice.

 

[Colin the Bear]

There is a tendency when starting out on saxophone to pull the low notes down and to squeeze the high notes up. This is not necessary. The embouchure remains very much the same from top to bottom of the range.

Later on you will learn about air flow, oral cavity, tuning and intonation.

For now follow your teachers advice which is specific to you and the stage you're at. It takes time for muscles and nerves to grow and adapt and for all this new knowledge to embed. It's a never ending quest. The more you learn, the more there is to learn. The better you get, the better you want to be. You'll learn more blowing the thing than reading what other learners think.

 

[wooster]

Your specific problem seems to be that you are confused by these descriptions. Thus my advice.

LOL nicely put and, of course, your right.

I'm retired and due to my brilliant financial planning I can only afford occasional lessons but my teacher is pretty happy with my embouchure as is. In the meantime I'm probably only creating problems for myself. Thank you
🙂

 

[wooster]

You'll learn more blowing the thing than reading what other learners think.

I do forget that sometimes. It's the problem of having all the information lying there via my computer all the time. I have an idle thought have a look onilne and then disappear down a rabbit hole

 

[Colin the Bear]

Turn off the pooter and pick up the horn. I should take my own advice. 🤗

 

[wooster]

I'm not an earnest young student and I know that I'm never going to be a renowned saxophonist so I might as well just have fun with it and see what happens. Maybe one day, I'll be brave enough to play something online

 

[Pete Thomas]

Maybe one day, I'll be brave enough to play something online

One day soon we hope.

 

[wooster]

One day soon we hope.

Be careful what you wish for 😀

 

[skeller047]

One day soon we hope.

Be careful what you wish for 😀

I wish for it too. It’s the best way to learn. Go read @cappers ’ posts, he joined a band and is taking solos. After 6 months! Bravery and the acceptance that we may look foolish is how we grow.

 

[cappers]

I wish for it too. It’s the best way to learn. Go read @cappers ’ posts, he joined a band and is taking solos. After 6 months! Bravery and the acceptance that we may look foolish is how we grow.

Brave and foolish 🤣 but loving it! Not so sure about the audience 😲

 

[Vlad]

The first ever proper gig I did playing the saxophone, I was absolutely off my face and have no memory of actually playing, just vaguely being on stage and a suitably baying crowd !
I do remember much hearty congratulations afterwards so I presume I was on 'auto pilot' and got away with it.
Bear in mind this was the original Punk era so rather a different 'ethos' applied shall we say 😉

 

[DesertRoads]

I’ve always played with a double lip embouchure, as I couldn’t handle the buzz feeling in my teeth. It’s the way I’ve played since I first began playing 40+ years ago. It has worked well for me. Each to their own of course.

 

[Colin the Bear]

A patch stops the buzz.

 

[wooster]

Right. Last post on this. Really! I am playing away here and I've found a 2.5 Rico is easier to play and doesn't close off the high notes so easily. I'm using this. Anyway, after playing for about 15-20 mins I'm getting muscle fatigue and finding it hard to keep hitting higher notes, which I assume is normal but I'm getting fatigued in the area outlined in the attached illustrated (and deeply attractive) picture.

I wonder if fatigue in this particular area is an indication of doing something wrong or whether it is normal. Can you tell me please?