Playing the saxophone Sax pain

[Deano]

I used to say to students that playing a saxophone should be as close as possible to standing upright and relaxed with good posture without a sax. Essentially bend the elbows and raise forearms keeping everything relaxed. Add a saxophone.

Weight is supported via a sling from the neck, or something around the shoulders. Not the thumbs. They can play a large part though - the lower thumb can push away from the body in a horizontal plane. The left (upper) thumb does similar. They act as stabilisers and work with the sling or harness hook providing a 3-point holder/stabiliser.

Can a wind instrument be played in a completely relaxed way? I'm thinking neck. Blowing to any sort of volume I've certainly never achieved this, though the rest of me is fairly relaxed - shoulders down etc. Of course, some people are just bigger too, with big shoulders and necks - so Paul Desmond for example is going to have a tougher time physiologically playing a tenor sax than Clarence Clemons or Andy Snitzer. It does weigh 3.6kg...

Some people play with the horn further away from the body - meaning that the sling is more slack and the lower thumb is pushing away from the body more. Difference? The angle of mouthpiece into the mouth, and consequently the airflow into the mouthpiece. More angle of mouthpiece will possibly also mean more pressure on reed due to "crowbar" effect if lower jaw is kept "in place". This also depends upon the angle of the head too - towards downwards will mean less pressure.

Compare Paul Desmond to Eric Marienthal. Not sure that there is much difference between the two, unless perhaps you go from one extreme to the other extreme, and even then...

Edit: I have long had problems with my neck after playing. I did have two "minor" whiplash injuries in my 20's. They have certainly had a marked effect - though not so much when I was a "gym guy" and also not so much when constantly playing.

I understood the relaxed bit but then you lost me 😀

But talking about posture my teacher did say that mine was good, I just need to keep an eye on it

I asked Courtney if you was to give me one bit of advice what would it be and he said play in front of a mirror as someone else on here also said to me to do.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Many here are worried that you are using your right thumb in particular to take some of the weight of the instrument. With the weight of a sax you should know about that if it is indeed true - unless you're really muscular you will feel at least tightness going into the right forearm in a direct line from your thumb. More likely to be pain really.

 

[Deano]

Hi Pete the problem at the moment is my left arm. I do have all the weight on the strap

 

[greenstripe]

I think that perhaps some of us are assuming that the source of the injury is from playing saxophone rather than aggravating a pre-existing condition.

@Deano do you know what caused your condition or how long you've had it?

 

[Pete Thomas]

And suggested that I try to play sitting down with the weight of the sax on the chair and keep my finger straight as possible.

Does this mean he has diagnosed the issue and this is the cure?

 

[Deano]

I think that perhaps some of us are assuming that the source of the injury is from playing saxophone rather than aggravating a pre-existing condition.

@Deano do you know what caused your condition or how long you've had it?

I believe that it is from playing the sax

 

[Deano]

Does this mean he has diagnosed the issue and this is the cure?

Does this mean he has diagnosed the issue and this is the cure?

No when I spoke to him this morning he just said to try it like that.

 

[Pete Effamy]

I believe that it is from playing the sax

If you take away the sax (weight around the neck) then you are left with your arms raised from the elbows to (+/-) 45deg, the hands in a natural position with fingers wiggling about a bit. It's not like a violin, whereby the the twisting of the left hand into position on the fingerboard is a possible cause for RSI straight away.

It can't be that - if we're definitely ruling out any possibility that you're gripping in any way or holding weight with the thumb/hands.

So, if caused by the sax playing, it must be something from your neck or shoulder that is being referred into arm pain. Trapped nerve? Are you wearing the sling as low on your neck as is possible?

Are your arms relaxed? Are your biceps tensed? Try actually tensing them and then release - they were definitely not tensed before?

The sax is naturally a round-shouldered instrument when playing, unless you have unbelievably long arms, but whilst this isn't great for our posture it's not going to show up until you've put in a few decades of playing many hours per week?

 

[Deano]

Hi Pete tennis elbow and golfers elbow can be caused by many things

Even using a pc, my problem may well have been caused by something else and playing the sax aggravates it ?

 

[Pete Effamy]

Hi Pete tennis elbow and golfers elbow can be caused by many things

Even using a pc, my problem may well have been caused by something else and playing the sax aggravates it ?

Aggravated yes, that’s the supposition by most comments.

Typing on a PC keyboard gives more opportunity for RSI than playing saxophone I would say.

 

[thomsax]

Cancel your teacher, if you have one, and book a physiotherapist. Instead of playing for a teacher you play for physiotherapist. He/she can then see what's wrong.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Cancel your teacher, if you have one, and book a physiotherapist. Instead of playing for a teacher you play for physiotherapist. He/she can then see what's wrong.

Good suggestion. At this point there’s no point in knowing about sax technique, and besides, general good posture should surely inform good sax posture.

 

[Jeanette]

I feel your pain, I got tennis elbow, pretty certain it was from pc keyboard use.

I had to stop playing my sop for a while as it exacerbated it. Funnily enough I bought an alto as this was easier for me. I spent some time learning theory too during this period.

I had physio and also saw an acupuncturist, who worked on my arms and back to release tension higher up. I also did regular exercise for it.

All this went on for nearly 2 years it seemed to heal at the time the physio used ultrasound. May have been coincidence but I'd certainly ask for that earlier if it comes back 🙂

Jx

 

[Jeanette]

Thread below might be useful

No sax for a month - Tennis Elbow - CafeSaxophone Forum

Jx

 

[Deano]

If you take away the sax (weight around the neck) then you are left with your arms raised from the elbows to (+/-) 45deg, the hands in a natural position with fingers wiggling about a bit. It's not like a violin, whereby the the twisting of the left hand into position on the fingerboard is a possible cause for RSI straight away.

It can't be that - if we're definitely ruling out any possibility that you're gripping in any way or holding weight with the thumb/hands.

So, if caused by the sax playing, it must be something from your neck or shoulder that is being referred into arm pain. Trapped nerve? Are you wearing the sling as low on your neck as is possible?

Are your arms relaxed? Are your biceps tensed? Try actually tensing them and then release - they were definitely not tensed before?

The sax is naturally a round-shouldered instrument when playing, unless you have unbelievably long arms, but whilst this isn't great for our posture it's not going to show up until you've put in a few decades of playing many hours per week?

I was for sure at first playing and holding to tight. But I have been watching it to make sure that I do not grip to tightly.

 

[Deano]

I feel your pain, I got tennis elbow, pretty certain it was from pc keyboard use.

I had to stop playing my sop for a while as it exacerbated it. Funnily enough I bought an alto as this was easier for me. I spent some time learning theory too during this period.

I had physio and also saw an acupuncturist, who worked on my arms and back to release tension higher up. I also did regular exercise for it.

All this went on for nearly 2 years it seemed to heal at the time the physio used ultrasound. May have been coincidence but I'd certainly ask for that earlier if it comes back 🙂

Jx

You know then it is quite painful and makes a lot of things awkward

I do not do much on the keyboard

You went for it with your treatment done almost everything.

I hope that I do not have to wait for 2 years it has been about 10 months so far.

 

[Deano]

Hi Jeanette I read your thread

No sax for a month - Tennis Elbow - CafeSaxophone Forum

And this bit from it below is the same for me

I don't think an alto will solve it apart from being able to take the weight with a strap it is having my arm bent and the small muscle movements that do it I think.

 

[Pete Effamy]

I was for sure at first playing and holding to tight. But I have been watching it to make sure that I do not grip to tightly.

I’m sure either Turf, Dr G or Skeller pointed out beforehand that it isn’t a grip. You may be just using wrong words now, but the only force needed from fingers is exactly the force needed to close a key