Sax mouthpieces and intonation

[TootSweet]

Are there alto sax mouthpieces that have better intonation with the same horn than others?

 

[The Saxbot]

Yes, there are alto sax mouthpieces that have better intonation with the same horn than others. The intonation of a saxophone mouthpiece is affected by various factors such as the shape of the chamber, the size of the tip opening, the baffle design, and the facing curve. A mouthpiece with a larger chamber tends to produce a warmer and more mellow sound, while a mouthpiece with a smaller chamber produces a brighter and more focused sound. The size of the tip opening affects the resistance and the volume of air that can be pushed through the mouthpiece, which can also affect the intonation.

Some mouthpiece brands are known for their consistent intonation across different models, such as Vandoren, Selmer, and Meyer. However, it's important to note that every saxophonist has a unique playing style and embouchure, so what works well for one player may not work as well for another. It's always a good idea to try out different mouthpieces and see which one works best for your individual needs and preferences.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Seems like a reasonable answer, well done Saxbot.

 

[Dr G]

Saxbot obviously hasn’t read Bonade regarding conicity. Harrumph.

 

[Targa]

Seems like a reasonable answer, well done Saxbot.

Saxbot probably bases its answers on information found on the Cafe.

 

[Dr G]

Saxbot probably bases its answers on information found on the Cafe.

Not unlike the pot asking the kettle its favorite colour.

 

[turf3]

GIGO and self-fulfilling prophecies.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Saxbot obviously hasn’t read Bonade regarding conicity. Harrumph.

That may be because it is Benade who wrote about conicity. I apologise unreservedly for the unnecessary pedanticism, I should know better by now.

I have to admit that not being a physicist I don't understand a lot of what he said beyond assuming the volume of the mouthpiece chamber should be the same as the volume of the missing cone. (In an ideal acoustical world the saxophone would be a complete cone, however it has to be truncated near the tip of the cone in order to fit a mouthpiece.

But I suspect it isn't enough to just use mouthpiece chamber volume to replace the missing cone in order to be "acoustically correct" because with a mouthpiece making up the volume it is no longer an actual cone. He says:

• Harmonically aligned air column mode ratios better support a stable ``regime of oscillation'' via mode cooperation (Worman, 1971).
• Minimizing
  
  will produce more harmonically aligned mode ratios.
• However, longer air column lengths (with smaller
  
  ) are more affected by the input shunt inertance.

Haven't I always said it's all about the input shunt inertance? And can you always trust a Worman?

 

[Jimmymack]

Input shunt inheritance will get you every time especially when the regime of oscillation kicks in.

 

[Targa]

Haven't I always said it's all about the input shunt inheritance? And can you always trust a Worman?

No because he'll always try and wriggle out of things.

 

[Colin the Bear]

What is input shunt inertance? Perhaps the bot knows. I shudder to ask.

 

[Dr G]

That may be because it is Benade who wrote about conicity. I apologise unreservedly for the unnecessary pedanticism, I should know better by now.

Thanks for that, Pete. Spot on - best to keep the record straight.

I have to admit that not being a physicist I don't understand a lot of what he said beyond assuming the volume of the mouthpiece chamber should be the same as the volume of the missing cone. (In an ideal acoustical world the saxophone would be a complete cone, however it has to be truncated near the tip of the cone in order to fit a mouthpiece.

What would an ideal saxophone sound like? And what would happen if one were to go beyond the point of the cone, as we sometimes do with confocal lasers?

But I suspect it isn't enough to just use mouthpiece chamber volume to replace the missing cone in order to be "acoustically correct" because with a mouthpiece making up the volume it is no longer an actual cone. He says:

• Harmonically aligned air column mode ratios better support a stable ``regime of oscillation'' via mode cooperation (Worman, 1971).
• Minimizing
  
  will produce more harmonically aligned mode ratios.
• However, longer air column lengths (with smaller
  
  ) are more affected by the input shunt inertance.

Haven't I always said it's all about the input shunt inertance? And can you always trust a Worman?

I don‘t recall you saying that, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Something else that gets left in the dust on the floor is that by relying on the original sources, we neglect the ensuing rebuttals among the academic peers of the authors. Just because it was written in the bible doesn’t mean that it was a consensus opinion.

 

[ferguscullen]

Haven’t posted for a long time but this is still of interest to me. The AI generated response was ok but brightness/darkness aspect is irrelevant.

I don’t practice regularly enough to blame any mouthpiece for my intonation problems but there are definitely some inherent problems with my old Toneking alto that I’m convinced are down to diameter or depth of the octave pip hole.

I found a vintage Woodwind Co mouthpiece gave me the best intonation but unfortunately very little volume.

 

[thomsax]

I use to take a look at the original mouthpiece that came along with the sax when it was new. I think the mouthpiece is a part of the tube/design.

 

[ferguscullen]

I use to take a look at the original mouthpiece that came along with the sax when it was new. I think the mouthpiece is a part of the tube/design.

Probably why the Toneking mouthpiece I found was also a good match. I think contemporaneous mps are a better bet if you have to buy blind without trying first

 

[Dr G]

Probably why the Toneking mouthpiece I found was also a good match. I think contemporaneous mps are a better bet if you have to buy blind without trying first

Funny how old designs, such as Otto Link STM, still work so well on modern horns. Is there anything that is actually new (aside from gimmicks) in mouthpiece design?

 

[ferguscullen]

Funny how old designs, such as Otto Link STM, still work so well on modern horns. Is there anything that is actually new (aside from gimmicks) in mouthpiece design?

Good question!

 

[Pete Thomas]

Is there anything that is actually new (aside from gimmicks) in mouthpiece design?

Yes.