Reeds Reed Gouging.

[Tonehole]

Anyone else suffering from reed price fatigue?
I went through this a few years ago and tried cheap Chinese alternatives. To no surprise they are total crap! Only good for epoxy spreaders! So lesson learned, maybe not.

I then bought a load of Gonzalez reeds from the "Eskimo." very cheap. They are good reeds but stiffer than I like. A 3 was closer to a Rico 3.5+. So I have them salted away in storage for some future date to sell or work on when time permits.

After this I reverted to my early days and ways. I decided to play on Orange Box Rico 2.5 or 3. They work fine for me out of the box. Are there reeds I enjoy playing better yes but do I need to play them at the price they go for? No!
I could just as easily cut up my credit card and turn it into a couple of plastic reeds. If I was doing a recording would I select a different brand of reed yes. I have them on hand when needed.

I started buying up Orange box Rico reeds. I was able to snag a box of 100 reeds 2.5 for $50.00.
Other Boxes of 25 or 10 reeds in 2.5 or 3 strength. Hopefully dead stock but at some of the prices offered they may have been stolen.

So the other day I was toggling on all things related to reed and saw Orange Rico 2,5 reeds. A box of 10 for $11.54 CDN including shipping.& no tax on Alibaba so of course I bought them.
They are inbound and will take a couple weeks. I receive a dollar discount if delivered late!
I will let you know what is in the box on their arrival.

How can one ship a $10.00 item from China for free? No custom or tax?
Then there is the Blue A45 I bought, which looks better than my original. A story for a later time.

So how are you weathering the price hikes or do they have an impact on what you play?
I have plenty of tenor, lots of alto / C Mel, good supply of soprano and a meager but adequate supply for Bari and sopranino. Lifetime supply of clarinet reeds.

 

[skeller047]

I did this when the tariffs kicked in. Scoured the internet, looking for small one-shop retailers who also sold online. Found a few. Bought 12-15 (I forget how many) boxes of reeds, all at the “old” price because they were older stock, and they are not necessarily my preferred strength (in Rigotti terms, Strong instead of Medium. Or maybe Light instead of Medium…) This also coincided with a general shortage of Rigotti reeds, where 3 Mediums were not to be found anywhere…

I’l see in a couple of years whether I wasted my money. I still have 2-3 boxes of 2022 reeds on both alto and tenor, and some even older ones for soprano.

 

[LostCircuits]

I still have about 30 boxes of tenor reeds from a garage sale, like $1 a box...

 

[Tonehole]

I still have about 30 boxes of tenor reeds from a garage sale, like $1 a box...

Okay that is a haul! What brand and what strength? How many in total did you get?

 

[LostCircuits]

It's a wild mix of satb reeds but mostly tenor. This is what's left after I pretty much outfitted the local big band.

 

[Tonehole]

Now that is a nice honey hole!

 

[LostCircuits]

Now that is a nice honey hole!

It's too bad that they are all #2 strength, too soft for me, But it's alright, the average 3 - 3.5 reed lasts me 3-6 months at 2-3 hours/day.

 

[Tonehole]

I wish I could get that kind of milage. Depends on the types of music I am playing. Cocktail stuff I can get some distance but full out hard playing and I can kill a reed pretty fast. I am blowing about 15 plus hours a week at gigs. Usually on 3 reeds with an 8 tip for tenor, A45 alto and 8 Bari gold on sop.
I can get by on 2.5 or 3.5 but a 3 is my sweet spot.

 

[PigSquealer]

You really need to try a different modern option.

Harry Hartmann's Fiberreed - For saxophone and clarinet

fiberreed.de

Légère Reeds: The Best Synthetic Sax, Clarinet, Oboe and Bassoon Reeds

Légère Reeds online store is currently available in the United States and Canada. Free shipping over $39.99!

legere.com

Local pro players report up to three months of abusive use on the Legeré. I don’t know what grade(s).
I visited with the two men pictured on home page of Fiberreed at NAMM. They have some impressive products. Very open to answering any questions should you inquire.
Local pro players report 4-6 months or more hard use. The carbon fiber reeds can be performance adjusted. I witnessed this at the booth.
If I’m not tune testing on cane. I play a Black Onyx M. Both A & T. Keep in mind this is to test & tune. I try to do this with a matching MPC & reed the owner uses. I’m not a refined player like you.

I’m actually surprised with all your experience that you’re playing on basic Rico blue or orange box reeds.

 

[Grumps]

I've cut back on practicing...

 

[Tonehole]

I have considered trying Legere, but I have a stcok pile to work through and for what ever reason they work for me.
Could it be that I search for mouthpieces that work well for me with the reeds I use instead of searching for a reed that works well with the mouthpiece I am playing.

 

[LostCircuits]

I had one Legere that worked great for me on alto but I accidentally damaged it and I have more than a lifetime supply on alto reeds so ...

 

[Tonehole]

I have recently pondered trying Legere, but I have a stockpile to work through and for whatever reason the Rico works for me.

I am not a reed fetish guy, I pull a reed and play it. It dies. I toss it. I don't count the hours on it and or spend my time working on it to extend its life. I may set it aside when it has lost its snap and use it for cocktail gigs before I toss it and it gives up all it can. Others I set aside for when I need a reed that has to really take a beating and it matters.

I have read of pro's struggling between sets trying to find a reed during a break or on stage during a set. Others can just borrow a horn or a guy's mouthpiece and reed and play with no hesitation.

There were monster players on scholarship with me in University who did not even know what mouthpiece they were playing let alone worrying about what brand of reeds. You lent them one they played.

I just lent my horn, at a jam to a guy who plays a SA80 on a Dukoff. He liked my setup, impressed with the horn and power of the mouthpiece. How light the horn felt and free blowing the set up was. Never mentioned anything about the Rico reed.

Could it be that I search for mouthpieces that work well for me with the reeds I use instead of searching for a reed that works well with the mouthpiece I am playing with?

 

[Pete Thomas]

There were monster players on scholarship with me in University who did not even know what mouthpiece they were playing let alone worrying about what brand of reeds. You lent them one they played.

That makes a it of sense. Sometimes people seem to overthink things and attach a lot of importance to brand or model of mouthpiece, reed etc.

 

[Tonehole]

Yes, this was back in 1998 a much different time even instructors were not gear adicts the way everyone is today. They played old horns and old mouthpieces. My private teacher played Conn with a Link. Everyone played Links on tenor and Meyer on alto and a few white Brillharts. I cannot remember how many reed brands back then but not many. I know I played Rico on sax and Vandoren on clarinet at the insistence of my clarinet instructor.

I don't remember this fetish with reeds like we have today but I was young.

My private teacher was College taught and his only push was to play a rubber Link and get to a 7* as fast as possible. Even Slants were not as big a deal back then.

Do you older players recall how many reed brands and how much a big deal the perfect reed was back then.

Did people search for the holy grail of reeds? I know Trane and others pursued mouthpieces but I have not read of them fretting over reeds.

I imagine the reeds were crap way back when - say the 50s? Maybe those old players would think a current Orange Box Rico was a gift from the Gods?

 

[skeller047]

Yes, this was back in 1998 a much different time even instructors were not gear adicts the way everyone is today. They played old horns and old mouthpieces. My private teacher played Conn with a Link. Everyone played Links on tenor and Meyer on alto and a few white Brillharts. I cannot remember how many reed brands back then but not many. I know I played Rico on sax and Vandoren on clarinet at the insistence of my clarinet instructor.

I don't remember this fetish with reeds like we have today but I was young.

My private teacher was College taught and his only push was to play a rubber Link and get to a 7* as fast as possible. Even Slants were not as big a deal back then.

Do you older players recall how many reed brands and how much a big deal the perfect reed was back then.

Did people search for the holy grail of reeds? I know Trane and others pursued mouthpieces but I have not read of them fretting over reeds.

I imagine the reeds were crap way back when - say the 50s? Maybe those old players would think a current Orange Box Rico was a gift from the Gods?

When I was a student in the 1960’s, it was Vandoren for clarient, and Rico or LaVoz for saxophone. Classical saxophonists also used Vandoren, but most jazz and pop players didn’t like them. R&B, funk and pop players often used Rico Plasticovers. We knew they were the same reeds, but they were more convenient because they didn’t need wetting. I found out much later that Rico and LaVoz were the exact same reed, but at the time people were strongly in one camp or another. I did have a brief fling with a brand called Olivieri (from Spain, I think) in the late ‘60s, but they were only available in a couple places, and sometimes were hard to get. I did not use them for more than a year or two.

There were a few other brands, but most music stores did not carry them. And frankly, Rico were better than most other brands. (LaVoz too, but we Rico-heads didn’t like them LOL.) 90% of the pros I knew in the 1970s and ‘80s used Rico or LaVoz reeds, with the rest using Vandoren or some of those odd brands (Vibrator, Marca, Hemke, etc.) Vandoren only had one style (what is now called “blue box”), and Rico or LaVoz had no other styles.

All that changed in the 1990’s and 2000’s - D’Addario bought Rico, more manufacturers and boutique lables started to buy private label reeds from Marca and Rigotti, Hemke and Lurie were already being made by Rico, and Rigotti started to retail their own brand. Then Rico branched out with different styles, Vandoren did too, Gonzalez started shipping worldwide, and we have the multiplicity of choice we have today. Which really all come from five companies - D’Addario, Vandoren, Rigotti, Marca and Gonzalez.

 

[Tonehole]

Deep dive- If they played them so why not me!

Before high-quality microphones and monitors were common in clubs, saxophonists relied on physical resistance to project.

• The "Volume" Factor: A harder reed allowed a player to push more air without the sound "breaking up" or squeaking.
• The Mouthpiece Trade-off: Most players used mouthpieces with narrow tip openings (like a 4 or 5). To get a full, professional sound from a narrow opening, you must use a harder reed (3.5 to 5).
• The "Macho" Era: There was a cultural belief among jazz players that "real" musicians played hard reeds—a trend that eventually shifted in the 1960s as electronics improved.
• Charlie Parker played a #4 Rico/ LaVoz
• Coltrane played a #4 Rico in the 50's
• Stan Getz played a #3.5 - #5 Vandoren
• Sonny Rollins played a # 3.5 - #5 LaVoz / Rico

Modern Setup: Players now often prefer wider tip openings (#7 or #8) paired with softer reeds (#2.5 or #3). This allows for more air volume and flexibility, especially for altissimo notes and "bending" pitches.

 

[Dr G]

Deep dive- If they played them so why not me!

Before high-quality microphones and monitors were common in clubs, saxophonists relied on physical resistance to project.

• The "Volume" Factor: A harder reed allowed a player to push more air without the sound "breaking up" or squeaking.
• The Mouthpiece Trade-off: Most players used mouthpieces with narrow tip openings (like a 4 or 5). To get a full, professional sound from a narrow opening, you must use a harder reed (3.5 to 5).
• The "Macho" Era: There was a cultural belief among jazz players that "real" musicians played hard reeds—a trend that eventually shifted in the 1960s as electronics improved.
• Charlie Parker played a #4 Rico/ LaVoz
• Coltrane played a #4 Rico in the 50's
• Stan Getz played a #3.5 - #5 Vandoren
• Sonny Rollins played a # 3.5 - #5 LaVoz / Rico

Modern Setup: Players now often prefer wider tip openings (#7 or #8) paired with softer reeds (#2.5 or #3). This allows for more air volume and flexibility, especially for altissimo notes and "bending" pitches.

@Tonehole Could you put some dates on these paradigm shifts? When do you think the shift to 7*/2.5 (tenor) occurred? ‘50s? ‘60s?

 

[Tonehole]

Trying to get info on the change - Coltrane may have been on a 5* or a 6 in 1967 but he was working on his pieces constantly no one knows where his last mouthpiece is but his favourite was a NY Tone Master that apparently was destroyed - damaged - lost? Nothing verified that I can find they think he may have even been playing an early slant link at times in the 60s. He had a case of mouthpieces.

Dukoff started making his Super power chamber in the mid 60s.

Theo's museum states Link made very rare 7 & 8 Tone Masters in the 1940's. I had a pristine 8 and it played very poorly so I sold it as the 7* Tone Master Dr Tenney opened played so much better. Upon reading Theo's blurb I now understand why.- "They did, on rare occasions, make larger tip openings, such as a 7 or 8. However, these mouthpieces still retained the very long and deep facing, which curtailed their responsiveness."
From my experience the 1st generation Slants are not great players as well, the ones with the knurled shank.

The Florida STM I just bought is free blowing and that is likely aearly 60"s.
My Double Ring was originally a 5* and not an impresive piece compared to my Tenney Tone Master. Once Sebastian Knox opened it by bending it which raised the floor to give it a nice baffle. Same method Dr used on my Tone Master. The Double Ring is a piece I will be buried with just a wonderful piece.

From this info maybe it was the learning curve, pun intended on facing specifications that slowed the movement to more open pieces? Just postulating. Plus adjusting chamber sizes and the demands of the new styles of jazz and the advance with amplification?

Reason Babbit is joining with Theo to make the Wabbits, the Babbit staff is not capable of producing a reliable product. The industry has advanced.