Playing the saxophone Learn to play by ear or by reading music

[eb424]

Well I'm a copycat as well. In January I joined a group that is keen on Tom Waits songs. So I was going to play, a solo as well, on some songs without saxes. When I listened and I recognized some sections where I could use Clarence "Big Man" Clemens licks. Not copy a whole solo. Am I a bad person or ...... ?

Yes yes you are @thomsax..lol..think time and age play a massive part in the way we do things..I think i would explore more if i was younger more time less urgency..for me what i dovis dependent on my end goal..once thats achieved the world is my lobster..cant afford oysters maybe crabstick..

 

[Wade Cornell]

Playing by ear isn't necessarily the ultimate goal... unless you set it as your ultimate goal. That, however is what this thread is about. Do what you can and what you enjoy.

Age has little to do with it though. You can challenge yourself at any stage of your life. One of the new(ish) members of Wikiloops who came from this site is in his eighties, and he;s improving! I'm 77, so what's age got to do with it if you've still got OK coordination, your marbles?

 

[eb424]

Playing by ear isn't necessarily the ultimate goal... unless you set it as your ultimate goal. That, however is what this thread is about. Do what you can and what you enjoy.

Age has little to do with it though. You can challenge yourself at any stage of your life. One of the new(ish) members of Wikiloops who came from this site is in his eighties, and he;s improving! I'm 77, so what's age got to do with it if you've still got OK coordination, your marbles?

when i started the thread off it was about being able to fill in instrumentals and outros.. my ultimate goal was to carry on playing in care homes but improve the set by completing the songs. Hence the thread..age for me has a lot to do with it..theres a lot of difference being an older beginner than there is being older and having played for 40 years..

 

[Wade Cornell]

when i started the thread off it was about being able to fill in instrumentals and outros.. my ultimate goal was to carry on playing in care homes but improve the set by completing the songs. Hence the thread..age for me has a lot to do with it..theres a lot of difference being an older beginner than there is being older and having played for 40 years..

I'm not going to disagree with you, yet it's also a matter of attitude. The other player (80 + year old) at Wikiloops that I mentioned is a sax beginner, although he plays other instruments. I've been playing for 65 years, so you're right about me!
Just as an aside I've played in several "old age" homes with a group that plays mostly 1930 - 40s music. Never for money, and just to bring something different to their day. The twinkle in the eye is all the reward needed.

 

[eb424]

I'm not going to disagree with you, yet it's also a matter of attitude. The other player (80 + year old) at Wikiloops that I mentioned is a sax beginner, although he plays other instruments. I've been playing for 65 years, so you're right about me!
Just as an aside I've played in several "old age" homes with a group that plays mostly 1930 - 40s music. Never for money, and just to bring something different to their day. The twinkle in the eye is all the reward needed.

Exactly the reason i do it...it gives a reason too for my playing i was getting lost..I was trying to raise cash for Alkzheimers charity if people wanted to make a donation, the event ( i use the term liberally lol)..is free..Ive always tried to practice and play at least 2 hours a day but was asking myself why..the care homes have re focused me..ive got over so many hurdles so far re playingbim sure ill find a way through this..

 

[jazzdoh]

I have nothing more to add regarding "playing by ear", just keep playing and enjoying it.
I applaud you for your care home gigs, giving something back is a worthy goal.
On the age issue I once new a trumpet player that started in his mid 50's and was playing and gigging up until his mid 80's
You can't turn the clock back but you still have time to have a good musical journey.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Seeing as its thread revival Tuesday, this is always a good 'un. The poll is still live and we've had quite a few new members in the last 18 months so go for it.

 

[Tenor Viol]

A variable in the mix as to whether or not you are likely to be a reader or not is the nature of the genre you tend to perform. If you play in an ensemble such as a wind band, big band, orchestra,or similar, you are going to have to read dots smce you have to play what is written for it to work. Other formats have more leeway with regard to 'what' is played.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Other formats have more leeway with regard to 'what' is played.

There is the other side of that coin, in that other formats are as prescriptive but the other way round so reading is not required but memorising, learning quickly, on the spot arranging by ear are imperative.

I think in the live/performing side of my career that has been much more common that have to read.

 

[progger]

Context is crucial for this question... If forced to choose, I'll definitely pick "ear," since without good ears my career would be doomed. And that goes for any professional musician working in my particular areas. Being able to read (and write) music on a high level is, however, extremely useful, and my career would also suffer without those skills, although not to the same extent as if my aural faculties took a plunge.

In my experience, a professional contemporary musician in a major metropolitan area (in the States, at least) is expected to have fantastic ears and also to be able to read on at least a moderately competent level. The more both areas are developed, the better.

For people focusing on concert band or orchestral music, things like that, then of course reading will become more crucial... but that isn't the majority of working saxophonists that I'm aware of, to say the least.

 

[cappers]

When I started about nine months ago my goal was to learn to play by ear. However my teacher strongly recommended that I learn to read music too, especially if I wished to play in a band. With practice and joining a community band my reading has really improved and I can hear and 'sing' the dots as it were.

Playing by ear still eludes me. I can just about play a simple nursery rhyme but most of the time I'm pecking and hunting for the right note. Scale, chord and arpeggio practice is helping develop my ears to discern intervals and when I improvise my brain and fingers seem to work in harmony to make something melodic albeit simple and basic.

I find it difficult to remember songs that I have played many times with the band even though I can hear them in my head. Some phrases and riffs have 'sunk in' but overall I doubt I could remember more than a couple of bars before having to think about what goes next, or continue the piece just by ear.

The other day I played a few bars and recognised it as the opening to the 'Stripper' (David Rose) - C D F A G F C# C D F F C B Bb.....but if somebody had asked me to play it before then I doubt I could have even though I could sing it. More practice needed I suppose!

 

[Pete Thomas]

When I started about nine months ago my goal was to learn to play by ear. However my teacher strongly recommend that I learn to read music too, especially

Playing by ear still eludes me.

If I was to start teaching again, and it was an absolute beginner learning, I would put off learning to read for quite a while. I've noticed in general that people who start out learn to read have more difficulty in playing by ear/memory than those who start out playing by ear and then learn to read. Obviously you can learn both at the same time but I still think its best to put off the reading fro a while. Weeks/months?

 

[Grumps]

Not sure I can really make a choice for the poll, because when I began playing, it was through reading music. Since college though, the only sheets I've read were from fake books. With modern pop music however, you're not likely to find sheet music and modern pop bands with electric instruments are not likely to operate on sheet music. So over the last twenty years or so, when I had to learn a tune I'd go to youtube to hear it and learn it by ear. I did have an advantage early on though, as my father would play the piano and I'd play along when I was a kid. I'd play along to music as well that I favored, on my stereo from a fairly young age not realizing this was very valuable ear training.

With new technology I suppose written tracks will become easier to create and produce. However, I will share an experience I had with a group that mixed the old with the new. The older tunes I could find in a fake book, but not the newer ones. I never want to play with a book in front of me on a gig, but I was finding it was easier to remember the tunes I learned by ear verses those I had the sheet for. Makes sense, really. I mean... you use your eyes to read the notes to send them to your brains to figure out for your ears. If you learn the tune by ear, you skip the whole sight thing and you internalize it much better. At least from my experiences in this regard.

 

[mizmar]

I find it difficult to remember songs that I have played many times

I also find it very difficult to remember how to play something by Name - seeing or hearing the first bar or two and off we go.
Even worse, many tunes I learn on Nay have Arabic names for which are even harder for me to remember!

A bit off topic for this thread...
... The topic if which, anyway, meanders quite a lot over 47 pages.

 

[ghostler]

Obviously you can learn both at the same time but I still think its best to put off the reading for a while. Weeks/months?

Both are learned skills, both take practise to become good at either. I started out learning to read. Later I practised by ear.

I guess the bottom line is: practise, practise, and more practise.

 

[Dr G]

Argh, "English" is sooooo confusing.

Is it "practice" or "practise"? I'm recalling that "both" is the correct answer (noun and verb, respectively).

@Pete Thomas It's easy enough to stop reading a note while playing it - just close your eyes. Read a phrase, play a phrase, hear a phrase. Or... Hear a phrase, play a phrase, write the phrase.

Attention and intention are the way.

 

[cappers]

If I was to start teaching again, and it was an absolute beginner learning, I would put off learning to read for quite a while. I've noticed in general that people who start out learn to read have more difficulty in playing by ear/memory than those who start out playing by ear and then learn to read. Obviously you can learn both at the same time but I still think its best to put off the reading fro a while. Weeks/months?

Too late now

Now I can read - not brilliantly but enough to read the standards the band play - I want to develop playing by ear. I can hum so many tunes and can play snatches but can't play them properly without dots.

On the other hand when improvising I can usually make something simple and melodic by ear. I am trying to learn to play over chords and changes and daily scale and arpeggio practice is definitely helping there.

I suppose as usual I'm being impatient, expecting too much too soon. Practice, practice, practice and repeat!

 

[Pete Thomas]

Is it "practice" or "practise"?

In UK English it’s supposed to be practice for the noun and practise for the verb. US is practice for both. But I tend towards US English these days. No more quavers for me.

 

[cappers]

Argh, "English" is sooooo confusing.

Is it "practice" or "practise"? I'm recalling that "both" is the correct answer (noun and verb, respectively).

@Pete Thomas It's easy enough to stop reading a note while playing it - just close your eyes. Read a phrase, play a phrase, hear a phrase. Or... Hear a phrase, play a phrase, write the phrase.

Attention and intention are the way.

Strictly, in the UK 'practice' is a noun and 'practise' is a verb.

E.g. Noun - you'll get better with daily sax practice; the dentist's practice is on the High St.
Verb - he practises the sax for two hours every morning.

I think in the US 'practice' is used for both a noun and verb.

 

[Dr G]

I suppose as usual I'm being impatient, expecting too much too soon. Practice, practice, practice and repeat!

- Tomo Fujita