Playing the saxophone Learn to play by ear or by reading music

[cappers]

In UK English it’s supposed to be practice for the noun and practise for the verb. US is practice for both. But I tend towards US English these days. No more quavers for me.

Beat me to it!
Agree re quavers crotchets minims semibreves et al.
Eighths quarters halves wholes much easier.

 

[cappers]

View attachment 30568
- Tomo Fujita

As soon as I wrote "expecting too much too soon" I thought of Tomo's saying 😀

 

[skeller047]

Unfortunately, as I wrote in the memorization thread, it just takes time. But be active while you practice and while you rehearse and perform. Try to hear what you are playing in context, and to understand it as a whole. Read phrases instead of notes (just like we read words or sentences instead of letters). This gives your mind time to consider what you are playing at a higher level.

The more you think about the music, the easier it is to hear it and understand it. Then when you work on learning something by ear, you have a context to work with.

Repetition is mastery.

 

[Tenor Viol]

The way to remember the ~ice/~ise in British English is that I would advise you to take my advice....

 

[mizmar]

The way to remember the ~ice/~ise in British English is that I would advise you to take my advice....

I've printed that out because I keep forgetting it...

 

[Ghr9204]

The way to remember the ~ice/~ise in British English is that I would advise you to take my advice....

Good rule of thumb.

 

[cappers]

Unfortunately, as I wrote in the memorization thread, it just takes time. But be active while you practice and while you rehearse and perform. Try to hear what you are playing in context, and to understand it as a whole. Read phrases instead of notes (just like we read words or sentences instead of letters). This gives your mind time to consider what you are playing at a higher level.

The more you think about the music, the easier it is to hear it and understand it. Then when you work on learning something by ear, you have a context to work with.

Repetition is mastery.

Thanks Steve. I've noticed recently stuff is beginning to sink in 🙂
For the past couple of weeks I have started my practice by playing 'up a 3rd, down a 2nd' CEGB AGFE, DFAC BAGF, EGBD CBAG, etc. Ear and finger practice, chord identification and progression all-in-one.

At first I was slow and hesitant but I noticed today I was doing it without thinking, quicker and could feel/hear the notes in my head as I played them. Same with some of the songs so it is beginning to gel. I'll get there eventually!

As you said, Repetition is mastery

 

[Dr G]

The way to remember why my improper use of ayes & eyes is that I'm a 'Merkin.

Well, bless your heart.

 

[progger]

If I was to start teaching again, and it was an absolute beginner learning, I would put off learning to read for quite a while. I've noticed in general that people who start out learn to read have more difficulty in playing by ear/memory than those who start out playing by ear and then learn to read. Obviously you can learn both at the same time but I still think its best to put off the reading fro a while. Weeks/months?

From what I understand, this is the concept behind all of what I would consider to be the smartest and best-thought-out music education methods: Suzuki, Orff, Montessori, Kodaly, etc. Written music will swiftly make a lot more sense to someone who already has a bit of an intuitive understanding of melodies and rhythms, can sing and clap songs and patterns, etc.

 

[turf3]

A variable in the mix as to whether or not you are likely to be a reader or not is the nature of the genre you tend to perform. If you play in an ensemble such as a wind band, big band, orchestra,or similar, you are going to have to read dots smce you have to play what is written for it to work. Other formats have more leeway with regard to 'what' is played.

You know, it's possible for one musician to perform in multiple genres. I"ve played in wind bands, big jazz bands, small jazz bands, rock and roll bands, bluegrass groups, country groups, folk music groups, and even (way back there) orchestras.

If you can't read, you can take several of those off the table. If you can only read, you can take a different several of those off the table.

 

[Tenor Viol]

You know, it's possible for one musician to perform in multiple genres. I"ve played in wind bands, big jazz bands, small jazz bands, rock and roll bands, bluegrass groups, country groups, folk music groups, and even (way back there) orchestras.

If you can't read, you can take several of those off the table. If you can only read, you can take a different several of those off the table.

Yes, I know - I said it's a variable and people will mix and match according to what they like doing, or feel able to do. I play various instruments in multiple genres. Personally I prefer reading music. I have done a bit of playing from memory in a rock environment on bass and I find it extremely difficult to do and excruciatingly slow.

 

[Tenor Viol]

Good rule of thumb.

It's a lot more obvious due to the pronunciation than practice/practise or licence/license

 

[mizmar]

can sing and clap songs

Given that I'm as far from being an music teacher as is possible - I do think this is a missing plank for "late starters". I actually discussed that with my "flute" teacher - and he's included a pile of 'learn to sing solfege' videos on his site (that, anyway, being his natural idiom).

 

[Tenor Viol]

Kodàly method is advocated by a lot of teachers. It links specific sounds/syllables with rhythm and also hand shapes with solfa.

 

[Zasterz]

Yes, I know - I said it's a variable and people will mix and match according to what they like doing, or feel able to do. I play various instruments in multiple genres. Personally I prefer reading music. I have done a bit of playing from memory in a rock environment on bass and I find it extremely difficult to do and excruciatingly slow.

Speaking as a music teacher (piano/voice)- the thing that you find extremely difficult to do and are slower at is the skill you can stand to develop, more so than the part that already comes naturally! 😉

 

[Bisaxual]

I thought I already said this, but at the risk of repeating myself….. I don’t think anyone learns or is taught to write before he or she learns to speak, yet we often teach students to READ written music before they learn to PLAY music. Seems odd, even though it has worked for many, many musicians.

 

[mizmar]

True.
For infants.

 

[Wade Cornell]

The Suzuki school of music gives 3 year olds violins (also now also other instruments in small scale) to play. They learn to play by ear and copy music the same way infants copy language in learning how to speak. They don't learn to read music until able to play fluently by ear. The instrument becomes "your musical voice". It has been extremely successful in training classical players, especially violin, which was the first and only instrument taught for some time.

This doesn't work as easily for even older children as our brains become less "flexible/plastic" as we age. We also have tendencies that become more prevalent as "learners" going to school. Nearly all of what we learn in school is represented visually. And indeed the majority of adults are visual learners. A much smaller group are auditory learners, for whom learning by ear may be easier than being taught to read music and play that way (I'm one). I needed good lecturers in school as hearing the information made it stick in my head, reading less so.

Music pedagogy is almost all geared towards visual learners. This is unfortunately extremely obvious when it comes to being "taught" to improvise. Improvisation is supposedly creative composition in "real time". However it's "taught" in Jazz to be a visual technique of reading a chord chart and having a lot of riffs and arpeggios that are plugged in as "cut and paste". Practicing this a lot gives speed and fluidity, however it generally sounds very technical and too often lacks melodic ideas or any type of feeling or storytelling that would be appreciated by an audience. It's like "paint by the numbers kits... everyone can be an artist!

Fortunately the jazz idols/greats of the past didn't have this training, so did it mostly by ear. The difference is easily heard. Is it time to be thinking differently about improvisation? If you've never been challenged to play by ear and have only been trained visually you may be missing out as a real potential improvisor. We are not all the same. Not everybody can be a great painter, so possibly "paint by the numbers" is as good as it gets for them. It's likely that the same is true for music.

 

[Pete Effamy]

I think that there’s a differential to be made between age - as youngsters we don’t question. Learn to play a bit aged 3, or 8 maybe; then learn to read / write it. No question.

With the language analogy, how many adults can understand a bit, speak a little (maybe fairly fluent even) but couldn’t write a word.

With the adult mind comes “why”.

 

[mizmar]

With the adult mind comes...

Wide variability.

People don't just learn stuff, better or worse; they learn to learn. And enforcement means they learn different learning techniques better or worse ... So, it's nonlinear and you can get a wide variety.