Reeds How to adjust reeds

[skeller047]

A couple of things spring to mind as this thread continues. (“As The Thread Turns”, coming soon on You-Flix…)

One - the idea that a reed from a box should be “perfect”. None are, in reality. Expecting that is foolish, and if you think a bit about how reeds are actually made, you will come to the same conclusion. Every reed is different, if only just a little.

Two - I don’t want to worry about reeds. I have enough to worry about when I put the horn together without the thought that my playing goals for today will be co-opted by a bad reed.

Three - I want to be in control of my sound. It’s going to rain where I am today, I can feel it coming. This will affect the temperature in my practice room and the humidity everywhere in the house and my mood. So things will be different today compared to yesterday How will I get “my sound”? By paying attention to my air and my focus. I have to be flexible enough to adapt. Even with the same reed as yesterday, I will have to make minor adjustments to get a good sound.

Four - Item 3 above is one reason I rotate reeds. I play a different one each day. It forces me to adapt to the minor differences, in order to get my sound. Which is good training for me.

This is why I work on my reeds. I play a variety of brands and strengths (not really a big variety), and I want them out of the equation when I am practicing or performing. I don’t make a distinction between practice and performance reeds. I just put the next reed on each time I play. Every month or 6 weeks, I will spend a half hour or so getting 3 or 4 new reeds ready, to replace the ones in my case that have died. I generally don’t “rework” old reeds, when a reed is done, out it goes. I don’t break reeds in.

I’m not fussy, really, I just want my reeds to work, so I can think about more important things.

 

[turf3]

Well, I don't know if I'd call working on reeds a "practical necessity" for me, but:

1) I have to watch my money. Throwing away a substantial fraction of reeds in a box because I don't like them, when I know darn well they can be made to work fine with a few minutes's manual work, simply is not in my portfolio.

2) All those supposedly "bad" reeds in the box? They're not bad (except on the rare occasion you get one that's really mis-cut altogether). They're just different from what you prefer. And what you prefer changes day to day, as your physical condition, state of practice, playing environment, etc., change too.

3) We're not talking about some arcane skill that only the most gifted can master. As far as I'm concerned if you have the manual dexterity to play saxophone you have the manual dexterity to adjust reeds.

4) What I've seen in my experience of playing single reeds alongside other people is that most everyone over 50 or so, who had formal training, is prepared to adjust reeds. Under 50, or self-taught, much less likely. Of course the oldsters might well decide they don't want to mess with it, which is of course their prerogative, but see #1.

5) The single most important thing, that the "throw it away!" crowd miss out on, is flattening the back of reeds when (not IF) they warp convex and stop sealing to the mouthpiece table. Try to mount a convex reed onto a flat mouthpiece and get a repeatable seal and repeatable behavior and you're just chasing your tail. That's where 90+% of ligature voodoo comes from, in my opinion. Sure, if you have a crappy joint of the reed to the table, a little more pressure here, a little less there, etc., etc.,e tc.,e tc., pressure plates, all that stuff, WILL affect how your crappy nonrepeatable joint works. But!

You can, for the cost of a small penknife and a small ruler, make all that go away. When you notice the reed isn't responding right, especially on low notes, look at the side of it and flex it toward the table. See that relative motion? That's because the back of the reed's absorbed water and been deflected down into the window, and now it's convex. Take it off, check it with your straightedge, remove enough material from the back to make it flat, and your supposedly "bad reed" is fixed! AND, you can use any ol' ligature you want, because a flat reed on a flat table just needs something to hold it in place.

And by the way, NO, rubbing the reed on a piece of typing paper won't flatten it. You've got to take 0.2-0.5 mm off at least. If your piece of paper does that, it's some darn abrasive typing paper. You've got to scrape (preferred) or sand it. Sanding takes more care because lapping a convex surface flat ain't easy, and if you let the tip part of the reed run up on the sandpaper you're altering its stiffness uncontrollably.

Go ask any auto mechanic whether you should try to bolt a warped cylinder head down onto a cylinder block and hope that tweaking the bolt torques and cranking the holy heck out of it will do the trick, and he'll tell you NO, you gotta machine that sucker flat FIRST.

If I had thrown away as "Bad reed! Bad reed!" every baritone sax reed that's quit working on me due to warpage over the last 40 years at $7 a pop, well, that'd be a lot of darn reeds. But those who refuse to consider adjusting reeds are setting themselves up for this as well as wasting a lot of money throwing away reeds that just aren't to their taste.

 

[Grumps]

Any tips for getting my reeds to play softer? I have some 400 grit sandpaper here and a glass surface. What can I do?

Quality reeds are graded by their manufacturers in accord with their strength of fiber; not thickness. Sanding them down to make them softer will necessarily degrade them. Not to say you can't adjust them, if you're adapt at it. Just dispelling the notion that reeds are numbered by thickness.

I just found a quality brand that gives me decent response out of the box and play it till it dies. I also play middle of the road number 3 reeds on all horns from soprano to bari no matter the mouthpiece for consistency across the board. If the rare reed isn't right for me out of the box, I'll put it aside and maybe give it another go when the season changes. Last resort I'll adjust them... but I never trust one so degraded on a gig. If it's useful as altered, it's a practice reed. This is what's worked for me for some time now.

 

[skeller047]

Quality reeds are graded by their manufacturers in accord with their strength of fiber; not thickness. Sanding them down to make them softer will necessarily degrade them. Not to say you can't adjust them, if you're adapt at it. Just dispelling the notion that reeds are numbered by thickness.

All reeds of the same brand and style (e.g. Java Red) are cut to the exact same specifications on the same machines. The strength of the reed is determined after the reeds are made. This fact has been pointed out many times (as you do above Grumps), but people still don’t get it.

I disagree that sanding degrades a reed. Since I sand virtually every reed I play, at least a little bit, I don’t find them compromised in any way. Most last for somewhere around 30 hours of playing. That’s 15 or 20 practice sessions or gigs. Some more, some less.

I buy 3 1/2 reeds (or equivalent - Rigotti and D’Addario are trying to change the rules I learned as a kid), and most are a bit too hard. Virtually all are at least a little unbalanced. My belief is that balanceing reeds makes them last longer. It certainly makes them play better.

 

[AlonW]

I did the same process with a Java Green 2 and it worked just as well, although the sound is better compared to the RJS. It’s more clear somehow. It took 5 minutes and now I have a playable reed. I hope it lasts.

 

[Targa]

I disagree that sanding degrades a reed. Since I sand virtually every reed I play, at least a little bit, I don’t find them compromised in any way. Most last for somewhere around 30 hours of playing. That’s 15 or 20 practice sessions or gigs. Some more, some less.

On a sample of two of us that could imply sanding does degrade a reed as mine usually last a lot longer than that, at least double.
I’ve hardly ever ‘adjusted’ a reed and then only for curiosity, I always take them out of the packet, suck them and play them.

 

[thomsax]

Before we take this further i just want to say: To have 4 tenor reeds prepared and ready makes me feel good. I'm ready to play!

It was the same when I played football, I did things before to be ready to do the job. My "Mise en place" as chef was very good. As teacher I knew what to teach and what method to use to get the best result. That's the way I am. I don't say a player is worse because he/she don't do reed preparation. So relax and do what you want. If you think reed peparation is rubbish, well just step out from this thread.

 

[Grumps]

I disagree that sanding degrades a reed.

Considering they're all cut the same, you most definitely do degrade a reed by definition if you sand any more off of it. How far degraded is the only variable. But I fix my reeds differently than you, and save them for my own use by doing what most others recommend against. I make an unplayable reed playable, for me. And they don't last as long, for me, when I do so. It is very, very rare however, for me to sand a reed, and it's been years since I had to do so. And most regular, good performing reeds last me months, if not years when unaltered. Then again, not all my horns get the same amount of play.

 

[turf3]

Considering they're all cut the same, you most definitely do degrade a reed by definition if you sand any more off of it. How far degraded is the only variable. But I fix my reeds differently than you, and save them for my own use by doing what most others recommend against. I make an unplayable reed playable, for me. And they don't last as long, for me, when I do so. It is very, very rare however, for me to sand a reed, and it's been years since I had to do so. And most regular, good performing reeds last me months, if not years when unaltered. Then again, not all my horns get the same amount of play.

So, is a thinner reed whose material is inherently stiffer, shorter in life than a thicker one of the same total stiffness, made from a material that's inherently less stiff? That's the situation here. The reed whose raw material is stiffer gets thinned so its total stiffness is the same as the unaltered one whose raw material is less stiff.

Keep in mind that even with well-understood isotropic materials like steel and aluminum, stiffness, fatigue strength, yield strength and tensile strength don't track perfectly. I would expect cane to be even less so.

 

[skeller047]

I keep a reed case with 6-8 reeds in it. Playing mostly every day, for at least 2 hours, each reed gets a workout at least once a week, and usually more often.

Example - yesterday I practiced for 2 hours then went out last night to a jam, and played about 7-8 tunes. Probably another 30 minutes of actual playing. This is the 3rd such outing for this reed, and I expect another 3-4 outings like this before it begins to die. Maybe more, maybe less - who knows, who cares. I am sure it will be fine for the duration, and when it stops responding well, I will happily consign it to the dead reed box, where it will extend its usefulness by becoming a glue applicator or a wedge or something.

I want my reeds to play well which is why I balance them. This amount of time, 20-30 hours of use - or more properly, 10-15 long practice sessions or gigs - is fine with me. Spread out over 6 reeds, one reed will last 6 weeks or more. Depends on how much I play and how many different horns I play.