Tech/maintenance Haynes Saxophone Manual - an update

[SaxBoss]

How much would it cost to print 10 000 copies? Including set up cost?

All woodwind apprentices could do with one?

Using PayPal services or Amazon services, this may be the easiest form of ordering?

 

[wakyct]

It's not just printing, it's tracking orders, packaging, shipping, or contracting for same and all the back and forth to sort that out, and it doesn't sound like Stephen has finished revising/writing the 2nd ed. It's a lot of work and presumably he has a full-time business to attend to. Sure you can slap a PDF up on a print on demand site and call it good but would that produce a quality product he would be happy with? Just speculating here of course.

 

[ghostler]

Just curious, but has @Stephen Howard made any further progress on his saxophone manual project?

 

[ghostler]

Perhaps could this be a distribution suggestion? Use the same production methodology that the Real Book fake book used before it was a Hal Leonard printing?

Example, I am visiting @PigSquealer 's repair shop in the LA area. I ask him about the "Real Sax Manual". He reaches under the counter, hands me a copy. I slip him the equivalent of a 50 pound note.

He electronically transfers the proceeds to Stephan Howard's store front in Café, the Caf gets 5%.

See? Life can be simple.

 

[Pete Thomas]

the Caf gets 5%

And gets sued by Haynes.

 

[mizmar]

Conspiracy to commit fraud

Life can be simple

Probably not life. 10-20 with parole

 

[ghostler]

And gets sued by Haynes.

I was being facetious. And, Stephan Howard has obtained reversion of the rights from Haynes to produce the manual.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Example, I am visiting @PigSquealer 's repair shop in the LA area. I ask him about the "Real Sax Manual".

There’s a bit of a flaw. If you are visiting his repair shop, there is an implication you are getting your horn fixed by a pro, so you wouldn’t be buying the manual.

I was being facetious

I thought so.

 

[PigSquealer]

I was being facetious.

Not something to joke about. Forgery or counterfeiting is a serious issue. Even in PDF format.
Completely different subject from Copyright issues.
I’m retired from 35 years in commercial printing.

 

[ghostler]

There’s a bit of a flaw. If you are visiting his repair shop, there is an implication you are getting your horn fixed by a pro, so you wouldn’t be buying the manual.

This would be true if someone was living in UK. Actually I thought his manual was a very good idea, because he is an authority and thus extended his reach well beyond UK, to worldwide.

I avoided purchasing a used copy because they were unreasonably priced here in US at collector levels. However just now as we speak, I found a copy through Amazon US for $74.90 in like new shape but with shelf wear and free shipping, just committed the order. This is from a used bookstore that uses Amazon for sales and distribution.

I like Stephan's no nonsense well articulated articles on his website. They are down to earth and very informative.

 

[ghostler]

Not something to joke about. Forgery or counterfeiting is a serious issue. Even in PDF format. Completely different subject from Copyright issues. I’m retired from 35 years in commercial printing.

If the source of printing is Stephan Howard, then it is not counterfeiting. He already resolved the copyright and printing rights issue (see his Post #1).

Personally, I would be in favour of Stephan finding a hard copy publishing venue to be able to market his book. I prefer print versus electronic, because I already have a newer automotive manual for my 2013 Dodge Journey (Fiat Freemont), obtained as used CD's (and for an older model. New are prohibitively priced). I prefer fliipping through pages versus looking at things digitally.

Although Haynes was a good venue, I think it would be neat if he were to find a smaller printing venue that would be profitable to him yet beneficial to all.

 

[Pete Thomas]

He already resolved the copyright and printing rights issue (see his Post #1

Post #1 did not say it was definitely resolved.

“I'm seeking clarification as to what that means.”

Copyright can be very complex.

 

[Pete Thomas]

This would be true if someone was living in UK.

But then it would be unlikely they’d take it to be repaired in LA.

 

[PigSquealer]

If the source of printing is Stephan Howard, then it is not counterfeiting. He already resolved the copyright and printing rights issue (see his Post #1).

Personally, I would be in favour of Stephan finding a hard copy publishing venue to be able to market his book. I prefer print versus electronic, because I already have a newer automotive manual for my 2013 Dodge Journey (Fiat Freemont), obtained as used CD's (and for an older model. New are prohibitively priced). I prefer fliipping through pages versus looking at things digitally.

Although Haynes was a good venue, I think it would be neat if he were to find a smaller printing venue that would be profitable to him yet beneficial to all.

There’s a difference in selling a used hard print versus an unauthorized copy on any medium.
If Mr Howard publishes a new edition with full releases from last publisher it wouldn’t be a counterfeit. Where he stands on all this is his private affairs. None of our business unless he chooses to make it public.
I don’t care for E books or CD’s.
If I were to publish a book it would be POD, Print On Demand. Modern publishing companies have this capability. That being a book is ordered. One copy is produced and usually shipped within 48 hours. No need to invest thousands of dollars in stock inventory. The quality is quite good.
The major is issue is ROI. The author makes practically nothing.

 

[ghostler]

Post #1 did not say it was definitely resolved.

Stephen has further clarification in his Post# 27:

According to Haynes I need only remove any references to them and obtain a new ISBN number and I'm good to go. I'm currently looking into InDesign compatibility with Affinity Publisher - which'll be a lot cheaper to run.
Once that's in place I can start to think about swapping out chapters and putting new content in. So, no great deal of movement as yet - but certainly a big step in the right direction.

So, it appears to me that removing Haynes identifying information and name, republish as a new with different ISBN (and maybe a few other wickets?), he is in the clear.

But then it would be unlikely they’d take it to be repaired in LA.

Reality for me to drive to LA area is at least 16 hours (2 days). Thus it is a bit out of practical reach. Cheapest venue to mail a sax for repair is almost $70 US one way.

I found a decent woodwind tech in Lubbock, 95 miles away. I've already dropped off a half dozen saxes for repair to our local satellite office, Tarpley Music here. Thus far they are my "go to man" for servicing. I used @PigSquealer for an example because I know of no local techs who are also members of Café.

 

[MarkSax]

If I scan the book and give the hard/soft copy to a friend, no money involved, is that a breach of copyright?

 

[PiccoloPirate]

^^^^
Yes.
But there is something called,
Fair Use, that may not be infringement.
Interesting part of Law.
The whole book or it's essence,
"lock you up." 🏴‍☠️ing

Making a copy of a book you bought, or was gifted, so you don't spill chemicals or get pig poop on the original, might be considered, a brown area of the Law. 🐷

Wonder if lending your book,
to a freind, with a photographic
memory is legal. 🙄

 

[skeller047]

My understanding of Fair Use is that if excerpts are used, such as in a review, or reference is made, like a quote, it’s allowed. Or for educational purposes. Otherwise not. Note that this applies to recordings also, an issue that YouTube music reviewers face very often.

Wonder if lending your book,
to a freind, with a photographic
memory is legal.

Lending the book, no problem. Your friend, though, is probably illegal in and of him-or-her-self…

 

[DesertRoads]

I hope Mr Howard is able to produce the manual again. I purchased a 2015 printing from an online book retailer a few months ago. Lots of helpful Saxophone information for sure!

 

[Targa]

My understanding of Fair Use is that if excerpts are used, such as in a review, or reference is made, like a quote, it’s allowed. Or for educational purposes. Otherwise not. Note that this applies to recordings also, an issue that YouTube music reviewers face very often.

Lending the book, no problem. Your friend, though, is probably illegal in and of him-or-her-self…

Especially in casinos.