Hanson Saxes ?

[Paul_Dennis]

Oops! guys......I missed completely the more recent p[hotographs you posted Ken. Yes that is the mechanis, I was referring to. All I can think of, like Spike and Griff is that it is there to ensure that the F# pad is closed correctly when playing F, or anything lower. As Spike points out this is usually accomplished by using cork on the lever mechanism associated with the F key and pad but when this gets compressed it might be possible for small leaks on the F# to develop because there isn't enough closing pressure.

I'm hoping to get to the Hanson factory this week so will ask them the thinking behind the mechanism.

Incidentally are there any other questions you guys would like me to ask?

 

[griff136]

At 7:59:43 PM 29/05/06, Ken wrote:
> At 7:49:55 PM 29/05/06, griff136 wrote:
> I can't actually see the arm very well, Does it have an adjusting screw like the linkage arm on the key cup above it ?

Sorry Griff, all, I think I got some of the key/cup names mixed up.

Anyway Griff, the arm is attached (moulded/welded) to the F cup and there is an adjuster on the other end over the Fs cup. Paul and I are noticing that the adjuster does not actually come into contact with the Fs cup.

I 'think' I've got that right :?

Ken.

the screw should be turned until the cork/rubber buffer touches the F# . be careful not to over adjust as this will cause the F# to shut before the F and causing a leak under F pad. The best way to do this in my opinion would be to close the F and then turn the screw until the buffer touches the F# pad.

Having said all that If your sax is playing fine and this seems to be an auxillary method of closing the F# then you could just leave it be.
" If it Aint broke Don't fix it" springs to mind.

😉

 

[griff136]

Well done Ken.

I think that all sax players should be able to give their saxes a little tweak. This way they learn how it works mechanically and then are able to find problems when they arise and if they are minor jobs then they can fix it themselves.

I have one easy fixing tip to share today.

If you are having problems on the bell notes notes and you have checked for leaks, try the following

When any of the Left pinky keys are pressed they operate the G# key by linkages (cork or felt on arms behind the keys which open the G#)

Now when F is closed so is F#. The arm from F# should close the G# . Press the G# and watch to see if the G# pad moves at all - if it does this will cause a leak when you play low C#, B, Bb.

all you have to do now is to turn the screw so that the buffer touches the G# key cup.

The above assumes that the F/F# bar is correctly regulated ( ie the F/E/D when closed individually the all close the F# pad with equal pressure)

 

[Paul_Dennis]

Griff..that's a nice tip. It's a coincidence that I came across this problem just a few weeks ago with a students saxophone. She was having real trouble with the bell notes. I tried her sax and could barely get any of them to sound. After much pressing of keys and scratching my head, I noticed that as I pressed the left hand table keys the G# moved fractionally. A simple twist of the adjuster and all was well.

I hadn't come across thios problem before but am certainly aware of it now!

 

[spike]

Good stuff, looks like you guys were up all night sorting this one out, lol. (just jesting).
Interesting - Griff's link to Yani and their explanation - the bit about preventing resonance when playing low notes - sounds a little in direction voodoo to me however you never know, - or is it creative copywriting on a mundane stabilizer - would be interesting to know if Hanson's have an opinion on that since they're using what appears to be a similar mechanism.

 

[Rogerb]

As a result of this thread I had a close look at my 6-months-old Hanson SA-5 and found one screw nearly out and several loose ones requiring a little tweak of the screwdriver.

Thanks, I'll be doing it regularly from now 🙂

 

[Bobby G]

I went all over my tenor (Yamaha 23, not a Hanson) looking at all the screws during its last dose of lubrication, and found one long rod screw sticking out nearly 1cm! I reckon I was mere seconds from having to dodge a bunch of keys, cups etc as they flew off the horn....

A word of warning, though - beware overtightening as you will find nothing moves when you press down certain keys. Backing the screw off by about 1/8 turn seems to do the trick.

 

[griff136]

At 10:14:02 PM 30/05/06, Bob Green wrote:
I went all over my tenor (Yamaha 23, not a Hanson) looking at all the screws during its last dose of lubrication, and found one long rod screw sticking out nearly 1cm! I reckon I was mere seconds from having to dodge a bunch of keys, cups etc as they flew off the horn....

A word of warning, though - beware overtightening as you will find nothing moves when you press down certain keys. Backing the screw off by about 1/8 turn seems to do the trick.

Hi Bob,,

ideally the rods should be screwed tight. the reason why the rods tend to unscrew is due to the following:

a build up of dirt mixed with hardening lubricant

a slightly bent key hinge tube

a slightly bent rod.

all of these will cause binding which will as the keys are depressed/released slowly turn the rod screw loose.

remedy:


1. make sure the rod and key hinges are straight and do not bind.

2. thouroghly degrease/clean the rods and hige tubing. - i use lighter fluid to degrease the rods and a pipe cleaner with lighter fluid to do the hinge tubing.

I always check the keys are moving freely on the rod before i put them on the sax.

the rod posts should also be in line and the rod should be able to just drop through the posts without any real force.

Griff

ww.dg-music.co.uk

 

[Bobby G]

Thanks for that, Griff, points all noted as a relative ovice I bow to your superior knowledge.

I only got the sax about a month ago, and haven't done any dismantling of it; all I've done is lubricate moving parts. I guess, as it's quite an old horn, it would probably benefit from a programme of rod de-greasing etc.

Rod de Greasing, wasn't he a Dutch tenor player in the 70's?

 

[griff136]

Hi Bob,

I think your sax could do with a blow from that dutch guy! It os relatively simple job as long a you take your time and place down the parts that you dismantle on a bench and put them in order.

do the palm keys first theyre easy,, then the side keys, this will give you confidence to tackle the bottom stack. The springs should be unhitched first. you can use a crochet hoos for this job.

Good luck

 

[Rogerb]

At 07:30:19 AM 31/05/06, griff136 wrote:
Hi Bob,

I think your sax could do with a blow from that dutch guy! It os relatively simple job as long a you take your time and place down the parts that you dismantle on a bench and put them in order.

do the palm keys first theyre easy,, then the side keys, this will give you confidence to tackle the bottom stack. The springs should be unhitched first. you can use a crochet hoos for this job.

Good luck

I am one of those old enough to guess that you mean a CROCHET HOOK, griff 🙂
(unless it's a special Dutch tool I've not heard of?)
When is the last time I saw one of *those*?...crochet hooks, not special Dutch tools... :erm:

 

[Bobby G]

I'll be giving this a go as I am an inveterate tinkerer - well, it's my job too, playing around with cash machines that aren't working properly - but can you give me an idea of how long the job should take?

I just need a rough idea so that I can tell the lovely Doreen how long I need to use the dining room table (insert smily here)

Thanks for the hints & tips, Griff.

 

[Rogerb]

"(insert smily here)"

Which one did you have in mind, Bob?
🙂 🙁 :laugh:

I guess you know how, but, just in case.. simply click on the appropriate on to the left of the 'Reply Box'

I fear I'd end-up with a boxful of bits to send back to hanson :cry:

 

[griff136]

Bob - give yourself an hour or two and take your time.

I would suggest removing the keys in the order i gave in my erlier post. Be careful as some key rods Side keys and palm keys are very similar in length.

I have a "Peg board" - a bit like a crib score board and i place the rods in the holes.

what you can do is remove the keys and put the rod/pivot screw back into its post. then clean the key and then clean the screws as you go along. This way you cant put the wrong screw/rod in the wrong place!

which i used to do on numerous occasions.


If you get stuck drop me a line.

also what oil are you using?

I prefer synthetic 2 stroke oil for mopeds on the pivot screws as its slightly thicker than key oil whic i use for the rod screws

good luck nd keep us posted!

 

[Bobby G]

Hi Roger - I can't insert smilies when I am posting from my PDA (little hand-held thingy from work) but if I could I'd have used all of those!

Griff - the crib board idea sounds good, I've got one around somewhere. I'm used to putting screws back where they came from while I work on other bits and pieces, I've lost too many in the past. I use ATF (automatic transmission fluid) as a lubricant, I also use it on cashpoint bearings etc at work - I've been told it doesn't react with other materials and is also, to put it in technical terms, the oiliest oil known to mankind. Of course, any recommendation for something will be noted, but the ATF seems to work ok, there's a definite difference comparing before and after.

Cheers, Bob

 

[Rogerb]

Ah, I see, Bob - I thought there must be another explanation.
My PDA is even more 'feature-free', more of an electronic diary/Filofax really!

Any particular brand of ATF preferred? 😉

 

[Bobby G]

Yup. Brand name Oily McOily, King of Oils Ltd, type Extra-Oily. Failing that, try, erm, the label's a bit damaged, I can read Silverhoo, the last partly obscured letter may be a k. Or an r.

 

[Rogerb]

"Oily McOily" ???
You're having me on, right? 🙂

 

[Bobby G]

Insert all manner of smilies here!


Meanwhile, back in Hanson-land.......

 

[Paul_Dennis]

Hi Ken and everyone,

I thought I'd give some feedback on my trip yesterday to Hanson in Yorkshire.

I can honestly say I haven't ever come across a nicer group of knowledgable, enthusiatic people. I went to change my ST-8 tenor for a different finish and settled on the raw brass. Though, Ken, I was very taken with the silver plate alto!

Whilst there Alastair gave me a very detailed guided tour of the workshop, CAD/CAM facilities and talked so enthusiastically about saxophones and clarinets. I was really impressed by the quality of everything from the student through to the professional models and the way they are looking to make detailed improvements in both the design and quality. I sense the next year could be a very exciting time.

Chris expertly set up the new tenor for me and after playing it last night, this morning and again this evening I'm really pleased. Once I've played it some more

I also met Jenny and Andy.

Much to my embarassment on arriving I drove up the wrong drive and on reversing managed to drop my nearside rear wheel off a small overhang and beached the car with it's rear axle stuck on a rock and the front wheels spinning for traction. No problem for the people at Hanson's. Out came Chris with his Land Rover and a tow rope, Alastair with a ramp and Andy to help me lift the rear wheel onto the ramp......

Service....it comes with a smile at Hansons. What more can I say than thanks guys I really enjoyed myself, learnt a lot and now want to save up all my money because I fear I've fallen for a lovely shiny SA-8 alto!