Saxophones Any Jupiter owners?

[jonf]

Looks very nice @ghostler

 

[skeller047]

Model 37. Nicer than mine. These play in the same park as SBAs and balanced actions, but without the elegant keywork. Beautiful horn, I’m jealous.

 

[Colin the Bear]

So... Three altos... So far... They multiply. Don't get them wet or play them after midnight. No wait... I think that's something else. 😊

 

[ghostler]

So... Three altos... So far... They multiply.

They mate. Then the stork provides me a tracking number, shows up on my doorstep 4 days later. 😉

 

[ghostler]

It showed up at my doorstep today (while my wife was napping.) (Sneak, sneak, sneak ... ) Now sitting in my mancave office on a stand. It is a beaut, even looks better in person than in photos.

There are a few very minor dents, some odd scratches on the bell inward exterior. Those can be easily cleaned up. Some pads need immediate replacement. Others appear OK. Is missing the upper safety plug where the neck attaches, but I can get a universal.

I may send it through Tarpley Music to have it serviced. Also plan to buy a new hard case for it. All the sewing on the edge strips has failed on this all leather case, why a previous owner added hobnail tacks every 6 inches. I'm not interested in rehabilitating the case.

Right side of the sax:

Left side of the sax:

 

[ghostler]

Here is the fancy Vito engraving on the right side of the bell:

This is indeed nicely done. It is simply stamped on my Jupiter Vito tenor. I don't know if it was relacquered. Regardless, even if it was makes no difference to me. I am more interested in how it plays.

The nice thing too is the case had no musty smell to it, which is nice.

 

[Canuck_alto]

Very nice! Enjoy.

 

[ghostler]

Thanks. It has real mother of pearl finger pads on the keys, not imitation plastic. Also for comfort it has a larger plastic left hand thumb pad, which none of my other saxes have. Haven't taken it for a spin yet, but it feels really nice in the hands.

 

[skeller047]

You get that playing with no leaks, and lighten up the springs a little bit and you will be in heaven. That will outplay any Jupiter or YAS-2X. The ONLY downside to this horn is the low C#, and you will adjust eventually. Go listen to Ted Nash on his. Very very nice horns.

 

[ghostler]

You get that playing with no leaks, and lighten up the springs a little bit and you will be in heaven. That will outplay any Jupiter or YAS-2X. The ONLY downside to this horn is the low C#, and you will adjust eventually. Go listen to Ted Nash on his. Very very nice horns.

I tried the keywork, doesn't seem to have any heavy spring action, about like my Antigua Winds, so no need to lighten it up. Tonight I went over the small portions with lacquer worn or scraped off lightly with Brasso, removing the tarnish. Then followed up with a little Maguiar auto wax to hinder tarnish oxidation.

I'm beginning to think that this wasn't relacquered, maybe they engraved first then lac'd? The soldered brass thumb rest shows very little wear on the underside where the thumb resides when playing. The odd scraping that was done on the bell back side, appears perhaps a child (or adult?) may have scraped off a gummed sticker. It didn't show any signs of say removing an owner's initials.

This appears to be a relatively low time instrument, judging by the pads and moisture discoloration, I'm thinking it may have only been used a couple years. The upper palm keys have some odd scratches to it like someone may have worn lots of rings, but except for where the lacquer was scratched, there isn't the usual oval worn spot from a lot of skin contact. The octave mechanism on the neck binded against the guides near the hole. I bent it ever so slight to correct alignment about 1/64th of an inch. Now it operates smoothly without binding.

It has the left pinky paddles of a similar design to my early 1950's Beaugnier Vito low Bb bari. I don't know if they continued this design into the early 1960's. It certainly doesn't resemble the Duke. S/N 119xxA, anyone have an idea on year?

After cleaning off dust, tarnish removal and a coat of wax, now it looks even much better, almost like new. After I take it out for a spin, will drop it off for servicing. I am one happy camper for $270 total.

 

[JayeNM]

How are Jupiter horns?

I think you posted this question on the OTHER sax forum, too.

This thread has gone rather funnily off-track, most of it digressed to Beaugnier or Vito USA made horns, which were not Jupiters of course.

Not sure why that happened. I like Vito 37's, good vintage horns, but the Q was about Jupes.

I have refurbed over 100 JUpes, they are one of my favorite modern makers. From around 1999-ish forward, they got their game down and have been producing some really nice models. They were catching up to the curve in their first decade of saxes, '87-'97. Then they locked it in.

Also, benefit for buyers...they do not have the brand bias that Yamaha does, thus...you can get a Jupe model equal to or better than a Yama model, for significantly less $.

567/587 was the base model, these were the Vito Leblanc horns from 2000-2004, after Vito Pasicucci died and his son ran the company, they subcontracted Vitos to Jupe, ending their association with Yamaha, for the last few years... before Conn-Selmer bought them out and ended Vito sax production altogether.
Basic models, pretty good those. Reliable if a little unexciting.

Jupe starts to shine when they go into their higher shelf models. 667/669 (now called the 710), 767/769 now called the 700), Carnegie, Capital, Artist series 8XX (now called the 9XX and 1000 and 1100 series).

The 667/669/710 and the 767/769/700 are the same design, really, just the latter have the high F# and the key finish differs. The Carnegie WAS a 767/9, and the Capital WAS a 767/9 with a silver neck. Not certain why Jupe had two or three models in production simultaneously calling designating them as different models but in reality, the same model (except the Capital had the sterling neck)...but...(?)

Everything 8XX and above are Pro horns, period. With the attributes of a good pro horn.

These intermediates, today, tend to be priced, used, significantly LOWER than Yamahas base models 21, 23, 25, 26, 200 etc, used. So it becomes a bit of a no-brainer, IMHO.

Their used pro models also fetch less than intermediate Yamas (52, 475, 480) and I'd argue with foundation that many people's tastes would find they are actually better than the Yama intermediates.

Very good deals in a used sax.

@ghostler gave a pretty good lowdown on Yama and Jupe Vitos.

Jupes also did a lotta stencils....Olds, the JK ST90 series 3 and 4, Blessing, Evettes, a few off the top of my head...were all made by Jupe, and correspond to their intermediate models, usually. All they did was change the keyguard design, the bell brace in some cases, and the insignia on the octave key, to obfuscate the mother factory just a bit (as stencil makers often do).

 

[ChrisP]

Yes, alto. Sorry for not mentioning that.

I owned a Jupiter 500 alto as my first saxophone, played as well as I needed and was decent quality. sold it around a year later to upgrade..... then bought a tenor..... not played alto since 😀

 

[ghostler]

567/587 was the base model, these were the Vito Leblanc horns from 2000-2004, after Vito Pasicucci died and his son ran the company, they subcontracted Vitos to Jupe, ending their association with Yamaha, for the last few years... before Conn-Selmer bought them out and ended Vito sax production altogether.
Basic models, pretty good those. Reliable if a little unexciting.

Jupe starts to shine when they go into their higher shelf models. 667/669 (now called the 710), 767/769 now called the 700), Carnegie, Capital, Artist series 8XX (now called the 9XX and 1000 and 1100 series).

The 667/669/710 and the 767/769/700 are the same design, really, just the latter have the high F# and the key finish differs. The Carnegie WAS a 767/9, and the Capital WAS a 767/9 with a silver neck. Not certain why Jupe had two or three models in production simultaneously calling designating them as different models but in reality, the same model (except the Capital had the sterling neck)...but...(?)

A search brought me to SOTW, which I found a Jupiter link on the Wayback Machine, June 2010:

The Music Box - Jupiter Serial Number List

Serial number list for Jupiter trumpet, cornet, horn, french horn, trombone, tuba, baritone, euphonium, sousaphone, saxophone, oboe, bassoon, clarinet, bass, flute, piccolo, english horn, flugelhorn, contra. Find an accurate date for your instrument!

web.archive.org

MODEL YEAR MODEL NUMBER SEQUENCE SERIAL NUMBER SEQUENCE

• 1986 Begins with the letter "S" Begins with the number 5
• 1987 Begins with the letter "S" Begins with the number 6
• 1988 Begins with the letter "S" Begins with the number 7
• 1989 Begins with the letter "S" Begins with the number 8
• 1990 Begins with the letter "J" Begins with the number 9
• 1991 Begins with the letter "J" Begins with the number 0
• 1992 Begins with the letter "J" Begins with the number 1
• 1993 Begins with the letter "J" Begins with the number 2
• 1994 Begins with the letter "J" Begins with the number 3
• 1995 Begins with the letter "J" Begins with the number 4
• 1996 Begins with the letter "J" Begins with the number 5
• 1997 Begins with the letter "J" Begins with the number 6
• 1998 Begins with the letter "J" Begins with the number 7
• 1999 Begins with the letter "J" Begins with the number "A"
• 2000 Begins with the letter "J" Begins with the number "B"

My Vito Jup predates the 567 as it lacks the high F# key. The 500's (JTS500A - tenor, JAS510A & JP-567 GL-Q - alto) and 700's are after its time.

Interestingly I found:

Saxophone reviews - Jupiter Carnegie XL

So, this model came into my shop as part of a buy-trade. I am usually interested in Jupiters above their old 5XX series horns because I have found most of them to actually be very respectable, and they continue to go completely ignored on the used market. Also, because (admittedly) I am always...

cafesaxophone.com

I commented on Jun 29, 2023, to which I received the reply,

The Vito you have is a Jupe 587-589 model, so the alto version would be the 567-569. Good horns, I JUST sent off a refurbised Vito-Jupiter tenor, I honestly like them better than the Yamaha-made Vito 23's. The Carnegie is more or less a 567, with a few bells and whistles added.

Found a 587 but has a high F# key, which mine does not have:

Jupiter JP 587 II GL-Q Tenor Saxophone favorable buying at our shop...

The Jupiter JP 587 II GL-Q Bb Tenor Saxophone Gold Lacquer is a Bb tenor saxophone, featuring a brass body and mechanics, with a high F# key, blue steel springs, and a gold lacquer finish. This saxophone comes with a lightweight case and mouthpiece. This popular entry-level model of Jupiter has...

www.musicstore.com

Still in the market, their US price is $1,203 US, located in Europe. I don't know if it is unsold old stock but new.

Closest I have found thus far is the Jupiter JTS-689 Tenor:

Ebay photo.

The only apparent difference is adjustable bell and lower elbow cup guards. Note, searches do not yield much on these earlier Jupiters and their Vito stencils. I guess people like them well enough that many are kept rather than sold. When they do sell, they sell quick.

 

[Canuck_alto]

Thank you for all the info. That's awesome.

 

[ghostler]

This thread has gone rather funnily off-track, most of it digressed to Beaugnier or Vito USA made horns, which were not Jupiters of course. Not sure why that happened. I like Vito 37's, good vintage horns, but the Q was about Jupes.

It was more in the way of clarification for the Vito Jupiter stencils. There has been some confusion because Le Blanc used the exact same case for both the Yamaha and Jupiter stencils, also possibly Yanagisawa stencils predating these.

My pre-1953 Beaugnier Vito Model 37 alto uses the same style case except it has a really nice tan leather outside instead of vinyl. (My Jup Vito tenor has similar coloured case but in naugahide.) Also there are ambiguities created by some bodies of all these stencils not have the country of origin stamped on it, hinting as US assembly (to avoid tariff costs, I imagine.)

As alluded by others, due to the very large numbers of these stencils produced, that some ambiguities may have been created by some parts like cup guards being mixed between OEM model and its stencil, in order to IMHO use up overstocked parts and make sales at a profit. It appears that older models like the 37 continued in assembly production past the 1950's. (Please correct me if I am wrong.)

Also because many music stores prior to the 1970's, family owned and operated, an unsold older instrument in its new condition was still considered new and sold as new. It may be discounted a little, but not as heavily as a distributor who needs to clear out a couple hundred older models to receive a new latest shipment (Why I got a Yamaha YAS-61 pro alto at half cost in 1971.)

These deviations were more or less for clarification to point out what is not Jupiter. 🙂

 

[ghostler]

1987 Begins with the letter "S" Begins with the number 6

I just wanted to add that this seems to confirm that my Vito Jup was made in the late 1980's to early 1990's. It came in the tan plastic naugahide Le Blanc case where as later Vito Jups came in the black.

It would make sense that a stencil would follow a couple years to half a decade after the first model debuted. By then, the manufacturer has recouped the research/development costs and any tooling change costs.

The manufacturer continues to make money on the earlier model through stencils (and I guess in some cases licensing). A stencil can run for a decade, perhaps more, which these Vitos seems to show. Today, most of the Vitos I have seen marketed used on EBay, Reverb, etc. without the high F# are Yamaha YAS-23 stencils. They can be had for a couple hundred dollars in playable condition.

This now sold Reverb listing shows the JTS-689 in a very well preserved condition. It is a later year as it uses the black case whereas mine is tan. Seller is Mill River Music & Guitar Shop,
Northampton, Massachusetts, US.

https://reverb.com/item/63473706-jupiter-jts-689-687-tenor-saxophone-w-case-serviced

Mill River Music photo.

Mill River Music photo.

This is the best preserved example yet I have seen of the Jupiter JTS-689 stenciled as the Vito 7133T Tenor.

One of the best kept secrets I have found is that if one learns the high F# altissimo fingering, then this added feature is really unnecessary. Also I find that the altissimo is easier as the location they place the high F# finger pad is a little out of the way, just easier to hit high F# altissimo.

 

[JayeNM]

I don't mean to be contrary, but I am almost certain Vito did not contract with Jupe until the late 90's...

Also, pretty sure NO Jupe-made Vitos have the S or J model designation near the serial # on their tubes (?)
I have never seen that here in the US on a Jupe-made Vito. Maybe on your side of pond they have that, though ?

(correction on above quote on the Carnegie XL you dug up...the Carnegie really is a 767/787....not a 567/587 witha few bells and whistles added, as I wrote long ago in that review)

 

[ghostler]

I don't mean to be contrary, but I am almost certain Vito did not contract with Jupe until the late 90's...

I really don't know. I haven't seen serial number listings for the Vito Jupes to be able to nail down a date. All I know is my tenor came in a Le Blanc tan coloured case, which preceeded the black ones.

Also, pretty sure NO Jupe-made Vitos have the S or J model designation near the serial # on their tubes (?)
I have never seen that here in the US on a Jupe-made Vito. Maybe on your side of pond they have that, though ?

I should have been clearer. What I meant was the Jupiter made Jupe, (the model JTS-689 basis for my Vito 7133T tenor without high F#) was made starting 1987 from the table. Now we have a model basis date. My particular model Vito has the serial number of 313xx with no letter suffix or prefix, no country basis stamped. (Maybe someone in Canada bought a lot of school instruments being excessed through auction and now was selling through Ebay.ca?)

Did they sell it in early 2000's? I don't know. It has the tan case with auburn colour interior, which predates the black cases. When I bought it in 2010, it was definitely a used instrument. It had a number marked on the end of the case done by hand about 40 mm in height, which tells me it was probably a school loaner or rental withdrawn from service.

A possible tell-tale sign of year may possibly be derived by when Le Blanc stopped using the tan brown cases for the black. Both Yama Vitos and Jupe Vitos used the same Le Blanc case. About when did the Vito Yama 23's discontinue the brown case for black? May be a possible tip off of the year of my Vito Jupe?

(correction on above quote on the Carnegie XL you dug up...the Carnegie really is a 767/787....not a 567/587 witha few bells and whistles added, as I wrote long ago in that review)

No problem, the Carnegie has the high F#, so it post dates my Vito Jupe (apparently based on the JTS-689, which also has no high F#).

 

[JayeNM]

OK gotcha thx for clarification.

Yes most of the Vitos stenciled by Jupe do look like 687/9's, indeed.

The one question I have never investigated is.....IS there a difference between a Jupe 667/9 (or 687/9 if Tenor) and a 567/9 (or 587/9 if Tenor)..... at all ?

Because one was marketed as the student model, one was the lower-intermediate model, but eyeballing it they sorta look the same.

This would require a caliper-measure-up tho, and as I said earlier, Jupiter-branded 5XX models do not show up very often, compared to 6XX,&XX, and 8XX models...

Sort of a sad ending to Vito/Leblanc, as told to me by a fellow tech who knew Vito. When he died, 2003, he passed the biz to his sons, but upon his death he apparently had had an out-of-wedlock daughter who was able to prove her relationship, pop up and demand some of the estate, which thinned the company a bit financially.
Then the son who took over as owner was never really that enthusiastic to be in that business, so the company didn't last more than a few years before selling out to Selmer Inc/Conn-Selmer in 2005.
So after his death the company went down very fast.
Selmer discontinued offering Vito sax lines once they acquired them, so NO Vito-engraved sax is younger than 2005....

 

[ghostler]

Then the son who took over as owner was never really that enthusiastic to be in that business, so the company didn't last more than a few years before selling out to Selmer Inc/Conn-Selmer in 2005. So after his death the company went down very fast. Selmer discontinued offering Vito sax lines once they acquired them, so NO Vito-engraved sax is younger than 2005....

Thanks for the company history lesson.

Yup, as you say, a poor ending. Now we have a legacy. Given their ultra sturdy metallurgy, solid keys, etc., perhaps the Vito (Jupiter) 7133T tenor and later may become the poor musician's Selmer Mark VI? I get a good tone out of mine, thus a keeper. Now it resides in a new Crossrock contoured hard case.