Saxophones Advice on buying a saxophone - Weltklang

[Woodpad]

The difference between B&S (Weltklang) and Dörfler & Jörka is not simple. Keilwerth made most of the bodies for Dörfler & Jörka which gives a more constant quality. B&S quality shifted through the years. At a certain time B&S even made Bari's and student horns for Keilwerth which improved B&S. So you have to compare saxophones every time and can't make much generalizations.

 

[Woodpad]

The difference between B&S (Weltklang) and Dörfler & Jörka is not simple. Keilwerth made most of the bodies for Dörfler & Jörka which gives a more constant quality. B&S quality shifted through the years. At a certain time B&S even made Bari's and student horns for Keilwerth which improved B&S. So you have to compare saxophones every time and can't make much generalizations.

Correction, the student horns where made by Amati.

 

[ghostler]

This has been an interesting thread to generate 8 pages of comments over a relatively short timespan of a month (26-Dec-2025 to today).

Thus I gather by reading through all the comments herein with many good viewpoints and drawbacks to consider:

• One should not simply buy on cosmetic reasons only. (Unless in the hands of a competent saxist who used it and kept it in serviceable condition, perhaps it was unloved and thus little played?)
• If you have one and love the way it plays, thus it has been tested by you and proven to be worthy to retain.
• If you are a noob or neophyte still developing your experience, look for another brand and model that is consistently proven to be a good player and bypass these. (Taking chances are for those with more experience or want one for their collection - think G.A.S.)
• If you have opportunity to handle one, you love how it plays, then by all means there is nothing to stop you from purchase, have at it.

Also the comments on Russia and its satellite nation people goes to show that people are people. There are good and bad, and there were many good people on the other side of the old "iron curtain". It seems once you get past the political surroundings and cultural idiosyncrasies, there are good people to meet, even good musicians. Music, fine arts and other interests like photography helps to bring people together in friendship.

Anyway, that is my take on it. 😀

Has the OP, @Awwburreee have anything further to say? 🙂

 

[thomsax]

Correction, the student horns where made by Amati.

And Keilwerth was clear about this as well. Keilwerth student saxes in the mid/late was a 100% Amati stencils. The ST90 was assembled in CZ by Amati but the parts were made in in Germany.

 

[thomsax]

The difference between B&S (Weltklang) and Dörfler & Jörka is not simple. Keilwerth made most of the bodies for Dörfler & Jörka which gives a more constant quality. B&S quality shifted through the years. At a certain time B&S even made Bari's and student horns for Keilwerth which improved B&S. So you have to compare saxophones every time and can't make much generalizations.

Both Welklangs and B&S Blue Label are considered to be be saxes of lower quality/playablity. Not by me .....

Dörfler und Jörka made saxes with thier own necks, bodies and keys .... . Dörfler & Jörka are also (IMO) overlooked saxes. Not by me ... .

 

[thomsax]

Also the comments on Russia and its satellite nation people goes to show that people are people. There are good and bad, and there were many good people on the other side of the old "iron curtain". It seems once you get past the political surroundings and cultural idiosyncrasies, there are good people to meet, even good musicians. Music, fine arts and other interests like photography helps to bring people together in friendship.

I was not suffering by "communist horror" back then. I didn't judge a sax to be "bad, poor quality ... if he/she had a sax that was made in a communist country. But I dislike oppression, persecution, deportation, child labor ...... . Back then and today. With internet everything became soo easy .... .

 

[JayeNM]

A used Weltklang baritone to low A was a good sax for me back in the late 70's. And so was also the new B&S Blue Label tenor I bought in 1979.. Many fine saxplayer here in Sweden started to play on saxes like these. Can an aspiring saxplayer buy and start on a Weltklang, Amati, Conn, Indiana, Bundy II, Conn Shooting Star, King 615 .... tenors in good playing condition?

I got a call from an old friend who have thoughts to start to play again. "My heart goes boom, boom, boom ..... ". I'm going to offer him one of my saxes from the "shame shelf". It's a Dörfler & Jörka built "Diamond " tenor in ok condition. Install new pads, corks, felts, shellack, alcohol lamp .... .

I was so owerwhelmed to get a call from an aspiring RockSax honker so I made a bad video of the the sax so he could have a look. Some dent's and dings ... but in the same league as a Weltklang. Keep On Honkin' !

Perfectly solid horns, D&J's.....

 

[JayeNM]

The difference between B&S (Weltklang) and Dörfler & Jörka is not simple. Keilwerth made most of the bodies for Dörfler & Jörka which gives a more constant quality. B&S quality shifted through the years. At a certain time B&S even made Bari's and student horns for Keilwerth which improved B&S. So you have to compare saxophones every time and can't make much generalizations.

Dorfler provided and assembled the JK's with their own Dorfler-made keywork. After a while, as I interpreted it, they decided to build their own bodies so they could furnish full horns from their company, so simply copied the JK bodies which JK supplied them with under the subcontracting agreement.

Dorfler and JK bodies therefore, were almost identical - a little vague on what differed, albeit I never did measure up a JK body and D&J body of the same era.
JK eventually didn't like that too much, Dorfler using their body design pretty much, and basically producing what were arguably replica JK saxes, so they took legal action.
Whether by court ruling or settlement... the result of the dispute was Dorfler changed their neck specs so it was not a replica of JK's.

So "JK made the bodies for Dorfler"...only on the horns Dorfler assembled for JK, I believe.

When Dorfler started their own contracts for stencils, I believe Dorlfer started making their own bodies in-house (?)
Maybe @ Helen can clarify that ?

 

[JayeNM]

Both Welklangs and B&S Blue Label are considered to be be saxes of lower quality/playablity. Not by me .....

I never understood that being said about the Blue Labels....I have refurbished WELL over a dozen....those were MONSTER horns, period.
Never found anything lacking in them, either tonally/intonationally nor ergonomically nor construction-wise. Nothing that didn't show up on a lotta other older models, various brands.

 

[ghostler]

When Dorfler started their own contracts for stencils, I believe Dorlfer started making their own bodies in-house (?) Maybe @ Helen can clarify that ?

I think now @helen will be flagged to answer your question. (I make the same mistakes, computer keyboards aren't perfect. 😉 )

 

[thomsax]

I never understood that being said about the Blue Labels....I have refurbished WELL over a dozen....those were MONSTER horns, period.
Never found anything lacking in them, either tonally/intonationally nor ergonomically nor construction-wise. Nothing that didn't show up on a lotta other older models, various brands.

But you can judge a sax from what you see, feel and hear. Many saxplayers on internet the just follow the average internet opinion.

 

[JayeNM]

I think now @helen will be flagged to answer your question. (I make the same mistakes, computer keyboards aren't perfect. 😉 )

Yes I wanted her to correct me if needed...so.....thanks for correcting me since it was needed...LMAO....

 

[helen]

Sorry. I have been MIA due to a family emergency. I have just been able to start catching up on my online stuff.

Re: D&J. Timing of the question is perfect, since I came here to actually do some research on who said what about the brand recently, and then post a thread on my latest research on them.

So to answer your question @JayeNM here is the D&J recap that will be appearing on my new site in the coming week or so:

• PRIOR to founding D&J, Josef Dörfler and 2 associates worked for JK by attaching the keywork they had made according to JK's specs, to the JK body tubes.
• When orders from JK declined, Josef Dörfler found a business partner in Hubert Jörka, and D&J was born.
• D&J operated in Nauheim between 1950 - 1968.
• During those 18 years D&J produced thousands of alto and tenor saxophones in their factory in Nauheim.
• These saxes were tonal copies of Keilwerth's The New King & Toneking, but not exact physical copies.
• D&J made horns under a great many stencil names, but the horns are easily identifiable, and distinguishable from Keilwerth's.
• D&J was contracted by Keilwerth to build the Selmer Bundy brand for the US market.
• Once he closed D&J, Josef Dörfler, was hired back at JK (he had worked for them in Graslitz already) where part of his duties included training Julius' grandson, Gerhard.

 

[helen]

Both Welklangs and B&S Blue Label are considered to be be saxes of lower quality/playablity. Not by me .....

Dörfler und Jörka made saxes with thier own necks, bodies and keys .... . Dörfler & Jörka are also (IMO) overlooked saxes. Not by me ... .

They are considered intermediate models. The Series 2001 is considered the first real professional model saxophone that B&S ever produced. The B&S--AKA Blue Label--is what became the Series 1000, which is of course an intermediate model.

Did the company ever consider either model as "pro"? Good question. I would have to do some digging. I have some original source materials from B&S from back in the day.

I never understood that being said about the Blue Labels....I have refurbished WELL over a dozen....those were MONSTER horns, period.
Never found anything lacking in them, either tonally/intonationally nor ergonomically nor construction-wise. Nothing that didn't show up on a lotta other older models, various brands.

100% agree with you Jaye. They are monster players, but these days peoples' expectations about everything has risen to the point of ridiculous.

Vintage saxes are not immune from this level of high expectation: The house you buy has to have all the features. Same for the car. Same for your electronic and household appliances.

 

[JayeNM]

They are considered intermediate models. The Series 2001 is considered the first real professional model saxophone that B&S ever produced. The B&S--AKA Blue Label--is what became the Series 1000, which is of course an intermediate model.

Did the company ever consider either model as "pro"? Good question. I would have to do some digging. I have some original source materials from B&S from back in the day.



100% agree with you Jaye. They are monster players, but these days peoples' expectations about everything has risen to the point of ridiculous.

Vintage saxes are not immune from this level of high expectation: The house you buy has to have all the features. Same for the car. Same for your electronic and household appliances.

I agree...people's expectations are ridiculous.

Interesting comments you make because while I consider the 1000's quite decent, they are sorta sleepers that sit in the YTS23 price range used but are sooooo much better....they never struck me as having that certain something that the Blue Labels have.