Selmer Mark VI

[Linky Lee]

I found quite a lot of inconsistency issues when I tried some cannonballs.
It was only over two different shops though so not the best sample.

 

[ed_svoboda]

The Yamaha 82Z altos are, in my opinion, the best alto on the market. I am always amazed at just how much they feel like a Mark VI in the hands. The sound is really interesting. It doesn't have that great Selmer core but they blow great. You can really dig into the horn and find a unique voice.

 

[Simon]

Yep, agree. Mrk 6s are ridiculously over-priced collectors' item - check this one - which is apparently 'cheap' at 6.5K... 😉

Simon

ed svoboda wrote:
The Yamaha 82Z altos are, in my opinion, the best alto on the market. I am always amazed at just how much they feel like a Mark VI in the hands. The sound is really interesting. It doesn't have that great Selmer core but they blow great. You can really dig into the horn and find a unique voice.

 

[jools]

I've had a couple of Mark 6's and I hated them. Both altos. The action was really 'spongey' and the sound was dull and boxy. Certainly not worth the thousands of pounds I paid. The key layout was really great tho, I have to admit that.

 

[Bobby G]

Surely key layout is one of the simplest things to imitate on a cheaper horn (f'rinstance the number of Yani clones about), so you could pay a lot less for something that is as comfortable as a MkVI is said to be, but with a sound more suited to you.

I'd still like a go on a MkVI though, you know, just to say I'd been there and to see what all the fuss is about....

 

[Pete Thomas]

It's not just the layout - it's the feel. Oddly many modern horns use shorter springs (I think the ref 54 for example), which cannot get the same kind of "zip".

 

[Bobby G]

What is meant by zip? Is it going to prompt another of those posts where a lot of the terms are highlighted in bold before leading us back to the beginning?

Seriously though, does spring length make a lot of difference? The inference I get from Pete's last post is that it can, but can it be imitated by setting the tension of shorter springs correctly? There are horns that I have seen as feeling like a MkVI, is this because they are MkVI clones down to things like spring length, or are they just very well set up?

 

[Pete Thomas]

No, a shorter spring has a very different feel. Try doing the "boing" test.

You get a 12" ruler and hold say about 8" over the end of the table and give it a boing. Now try the same thing with about 4" . It's an entirely different type of boing.

You might think a thinner ruler would give a 4" boing equal to the original 8" boing but apparently not I have been told by a reliable source.

"Zip" just refers to the action feeling "zippy". I'm not going to describe it any further but I suppose what some people call zip others might call......

 

[Linky Lee]

If the springs are too long though, they loose that 'zippy' feel and just feel 'sluggish'

 

[spike]

We apologize for this interruption
Please note:
For British expatriates and inhabitants of foreign countries on t'th continent where units of measurement are based on the decimal system, for the "Thomas' boing test" you will need a 30 cm ruler giving it a boing at 20 cm and again at 10 cm, for best results.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Just count yourself lucky I didn't give the measurements in cubits or ells.

 

[jools]

Are units of 'Boing" similar to measurements of 'Dickens'? - as in our current weather. I hear people say "It's as cold as the Dickens" But I'm never sure whether this is measured against Celsius or Farenheit. I.E. a comparative, but not necessarily metric scale?

However, if a modern horn with a 'zip ratio' or 'boing factor' of (say) 2 or 3 (low numbers being faster) is compared to an old vintage horn with a lengthy spring of 8 or 9... then the resulting 'key snap' is SLOWER resulting in a slow action, and therefore not suited to fast playing and the effect of a 'spongey' action?

 

[jack_kwakman]

Always keep in mind that you have to get used to a saxophone of professional level. When I first played my VI (tenor) I thought I'd got rid of the wrong horn (sold a good SML...) It took me a month of playing and practicing to become aware of the real possibilities of the sax. And after 25 years it's still growing. Every now and then I try another VI in saxshops, and they're all different. Adjustment of the keys (height etc.) is also very important, as well as choice of the right sax-mouthpiece combination. In terms of easy blowing tenorsax there is nothing better than Martin and Conn, but for the real ooomph with a ring in it too go for the VI or a King Zephyr/S20.

 

[tengu01]

I have tried the Yanagisawa 992 series alto/tenor and absolutely loved them. And then one of the men in the shop I was trying them in told me that they are reminiscent of a good Mk VI. Snake Davis I think switched from 6s to the 992 series.

I went to the Brass&Woodwind in Bradford with their legendary collection of MK VIs for a long, convoluted tenor sax tryout session. I tried all the selmers available (MKVI, Series 2, Series 3, Ref 54 and 36), Keilwerth SX 90-Rs in a variety of finishes, Yanagisawa 991, 992, 9937, Yamaha customs.

The MK VIs that I tried didn't justify the price tag they commanded. I really liked the Ref 36 and the Yanagisawa 992. The others were somewhere in between. I held off on buying either one at the time because I simply didn't have the funds to make it work.

Months later, cash at the ready, I ended up with a Selmer series 2 silverplate tenor which was going for a very low amount from a local seller. Far too cheap to ignore because even if I didn't like it, I could sell it on and even make a little profit. At first, I thought it was okaaaaaaay, but nothing to really blow my socks off.

However, as time went by, I have grown accustomed to its peculiarities and as my sax playing ability has improved, I have been reaping some serious benefits from this saxophone. There is something "rich and spicy" about the sound which I have been noticing more and more as my tone exercises bear fruit.

In listening to some of my favourite artists who happen to play 6s, there is a sound concept that they have which I think is quite wonderful. However, I don't have the lump sum to dish out on a sax which I may or may not come to love.

So I like them in the hands of those who can get the best out of them. Personally, I still love the feel and sound of Keilwerth horns but couldn't get one at a reasonable price when I had the cash (and didn't trust myself to hang onto the cash until a reasonably priced one turned up), so if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

Now I just have to learn to become a better sax player without the pressure of people expecting miracles from any person who unveils a 6 at a jam session.

🙂

 

[Linky Lee]

If that's the case tengu01, when you go back and try some more horns you'll probably find you can transfer those qualities through as you will have developed that sound yourself via the saxophone, the saxophone won't force it upon you.

Glad you're enjoying your sax though, it's so so important to be happy with the instrument you've got.

 

[tengu01]

Linky_Lee wrote:
If that's the case tengu01, when you go back and try some more horns you'll probably find you can transfer those qualities through as you will have developed that sound yourself via the saxophone, the saxophone won't force it upon you.

Glad you're enjoying your sax though, it's so so important to be happy with the instrument you've got.

True, true. I am just unwilling to go back and start trying them out again because I am afraid of what will happen to my bank balance if I get those uncontrollable urges to buy saxophones. I barely survived the last round which resulted in a Selmer Series 2 tenor and a Series 3 alto within the space of 2 months.

And they have grown on me. So the way I figure it, now I have splurged out on the horns, I have to learn to really play them so I don't attract comments such as "nice horns, shame about the player attached to the narrow end" or "what a waste of an expensive instrument" 🙂

Before I got those two, I always wondered whether upgrading my saxes would turn me into a combination of cannonball adderley, john coltrane and david sanborn. I was disappointed to discover that this magical transformation did not occur and I am being forced to learn to play them the hard way 🙁

 

[Linky Lee]

I thought learning the hard way was why it was fun ?

 

[tengu01]

*......much danger this way lies....years of endeavour......GAS attacks.......millions of reeds.........spitty sounding mouthpieces....*

 

[saxafonic]

well... a bit late, but i guess you noticed someone here thinks the p. mauriat 66R out of Taiwan is a great alternative to the Selmer. who knows ?? certainly looks the part.

 

[daveysaxboy]

It sure is a sexy beast,i love my 66r as you know and have had 5 mk6's over the year's,keilwerth which was great and yam's and a pearl silver borgani,realy dark also and it's what suit's you that count's.But the price of new ref selmer's is going abit mental,i had alot of horn's and they all had there own thing going on but i wont fall in the trap of MK6 is king again,there's some great new horn's out there to try out.As i have said before time's have changed and that's better for us.