Saxophones Saxophone Recommendations New or Used Under $1500?

Ah... you read it differently to me.
I'm thinking an overhauled Yamaha Vito, Jupiter 7/8+ series, or something else "modern" unless the OP doesn't let on he's a beginner. I don't think George would push him down the vintage route.
2ndEnding have some instruments which would be good for a complete beginner, some not. But generally, I think asking a retailer which of their saxes a beginner should buy isn't the best strategy. However decent and honest the retailer, it would be better for the beginner to get their buying advice from their teacher (I presume the OP has a teacher lined up) or a trusted, experienced player - people who have no interest in what the beginner buys other than them gettig the best for them.
 
2ndEnding have some instruments which would be good for a complete beginner, some not. But generally, I think asking a retailer which of their saxes a beginner should buy isn't the best strategy. However decent and honest the retailer, it would be better for the beginner to get their buying advice from their teacher (I presume the OP has a teacher lined up) or a trusted, experienced player - people who have no interest in what the beginner buys other than them gettig the best for them.

In my personal experience, that is almost a paradox. I know enough teachers who are so ingrained in what they are playing themselves that they would not recommend anything else for their students.

Sure, there are others who don't care but I've had my own experiences and recommendations that were less than stellar. I mean, just look at the various saxophone forums and the "brand loyalty" of some of the members. It's an MK VI or nothing, it's a Yamaha YAS/YTS or nothing, it's a Yani or a Cannonball. And I'd trust George not to make any recommendation for a really quirky instrument. And I know what an instrument from hell can do to any player, beginner or not.

And then, as I said before: Stick it in your mouth and blow...
 
"No matter the instrument people usually have canned answers if you tell them you're a beginner."

You also said

"And personally, I don't think that even matters. Just point me in the direction of the best instrument I can get for a proposed budget."

It does. The 'best' instrument for someone with some experience (which may really mean the one they, subjectively, prefer) may be very different to someone with no experience.
You can't read in context.
 
I find a sedan far too much a pedestrian vehicle.
I see what you mean:

OIP.webp
 
2ndEnding have some instruments which would be good for a complete beginner, some not. But generally, I think asking a retailer which of their saxes a beginner should buy isn't the best strategy. However decent and honest the retailer, it would be better for the beginner to get their buying advice from their teacher (I presume the OP has a teacher lined up) or a trusted, experienced player - people who have no interest in what the beginner buys other than them gettig the best for them.
In general I'd agree with you. 2nd Ending is a bit of a different story – the guy who runs it is thoroughly knowledgeable, honest, and experienced specifically in finding "best horn for most reasonable money" on the used saxophone market in the United States. Many of those horns could last easily into a professional career (I have good friends who sound phenomenal on a Vito/Yamaha 23).

I wouldn't just call up Thomann and ask whoever answered which beginner saxophone I should buy. That, surely, would lead to regret. 🙂
 
In general I'd agree with you. 2nd Ending is a bit of a different story – the guy who runs it is thoroughly knowledgeable, honest, and experienced specifically in finding "best horn for most reasonable money" on the used saxophone market in the United States. Many of those horns could last easily into a professional career (I have good friends who sound phenomenal on a Vito/Yamaha 23).

I wouldn't just call up Thomann and ask whoever answered which beginner saxophone I should buy. That, surely, would lead to regret. 🙂
I don't know the guy who runs this shop, but I do have a lifetime of experience of retailers trying to sell me what they want to sell, rather than what I want to buy, or what might be best for me. Maybe he's different, I don't know.

I agree with you about the Vito/Yamaha saxes, they're great, and I have one, alto. I just about prefer my Yanagisawa to it, but I do really like the Vito. I do rather miss the high F# key, though, not so much for playing F# but as a key to make altissimo G easier.
 
For 15 bills you can get a really nice Martin Indiana, late model Buescher, King Cleveland, or a really fantastic condition Conn Director.
$1500 is a good budget for 100’s of fully ready to go used, some with new repad.
Including
Yamaha 21,23,25,26
Buescher Aristocratic or TT
Two fully overhauled Buddy II
Conn 24m (IMHO equal to Yamaha)
Martin Comm one, two. Handcraft series 3, Imperial or Indiana
Jupiter Capitol 760. Or any 700+ series ( Jays specialty)

I just took apart this 30 year old 23. I haven’t cleaned it yet. Original owner and I’m doing the first repad. Finding a good quality used sax is not impossible as you know.
1757536312847.webp
 
$1500 is a good budget for 100’s of fully ready to go used, some with new repad.
Including
Yamaha 21,23,25,26
Buescher Aristocratic or TT
Two fully overhauled Buddy II
Conn 24m (IMHO equal to Yamaha)
Martin Comm one, two. Handcraft series 3, Imperial or Indiana
Jupiter Capitol 760. Or any 700+ series ( Jays specialty)

I just took apart this 30 year old 23. I haven’t cleaned it yet. Original owner and I’m doing the first repad. Finding a good quality used sax is not impossible as you know.
View attachment 30331
I noticed you didn't mention Cannonball, Schiller or Giardinelli... are they not very good are what. Just asking.
 
I noticed you didn't mention Cannonball... are they not very good are what. Just asking.
They are solid horns, I had a Big Bell Global, which was a fine player, sold it to a MK VI player who is using it now almost exclusively. But it'll be hard to find a good one for under 1500.-

You can get a better Jupiter for the same money or else, a Chateau, a very good Phil Barone (I just saw a really nice one for sale), a Kessler, they are all in the same ball park - minus the semi-precious stones on the Cannonballs
 
I noticed you didn't mention Cannonball, Schiller or Giardinelli... are they not very good are what. Just asking.
Cannonballs are good players. Not in your price range and don’t appear in secondary market often. Certain years have tolerance issues with the hinge rods being to tight. They unscrew. They are made to Cannonball specifications by Chinese maker.
I know nothing about Schiller or Giardinelli.
 
You can get a better Jupiter for the same money or else, a Chateau, a very good Phil Barone (I just saw a really nice one for sale), a Kessler,
I don’t know who Phil had make his horns. Never had one in my hands.
Jupiter is made by KHS. A multi brand, high quality, old instrument manufacturer based in Taiwan. Hercules stands and Mapex drums are made by KHS.
Chateau is a quality maker. Models are made in Taiwan & Vietnam. Some of Kessler products are made by Chateau. The Wilmington by Music Medic is Chateau made. Chateau also makes some of Conn-Selmer products. Each is different and made to specifications of buyer / brand.
 
I don’t know who Phil had make his horns. Never had one in my hands.
Jupiter is made by KHS. A multi brand, high quality, old instrument manufacturer based in Taiwan. Hercules stands and Mapex drums are made by KHS.
Chateau is a quality maker. Models are made in Taiwan & Vietnam. Some of Kessler products are made by Chateau. The Wilmington by Music Medic is Chateau made. Chateau also makes some of Conn-Selmer products. Each is different and made to specifications of buyer / brand.
AFAIK, Phil Barone were made by Chateau. Moreover, Phil was a quality nazi. I bought two of his going out of business mouthpieces and it was almost like I had to take a test to be deemed worthy. As soon as he got the confirmation that I had picked them up at the UPS hub (I was traveling on the scheduled delivery date), he called me, I mean, I wasn't even home yet, persuading me to make a detour to a local music store to get exactly the reeds he wanted me to play, I know that sounds a bit over the top but I heard similar stories from folks who bought his horns. If there was even a hint of any imperfection, he'd go out of his way to make sure the customers were 100% satisfied.

I know there was something like a besmirching campaign against him a few years ago, part of why he retired and moved to Africa but I've met few people who were as dedicated as he to the standards of his products.
 
As promised this is the list I just received:

Buffet 100 - NICE horn, this used to be Buffets intermediate model (the 400 was their pro, the Evette was their student) until they introduced the uber-to-shelf senzo, at which time they discontinued the Evettes and made the 400 the intermediate and the 100 the student...except...they didn't change the design of either, they just re-marketed them in the lower categories (go figure). I like these, they are built really well, their action is great, tonality very nice -they were shooting for an sorta old-school throwback tone so these are darker and a bit usher than most contemporary altos. Lacq in pretty good shape, not pristine, it has some scratches and spotting, but overall I'd call it attractive $699

Jupiter Artist 869 - these were probably JUpiters first bona-fide pro horns, they made and make several good intermediate models. Silverplated with brass lacq keywork so an aesthetic maybe not to everyone's taste but a lotta folks think it looks nifty. Good shape, some scratches and blems but also an attractive looking horn. $925

Jupiter Carnegie XL...this is actually the exact same intermediate model as a Jupiter 767/9 or a Jupiter Capital Edition. In the early 2000's Jupe ran one design off the line for 3 different models. The 767 had brass lacq keys, the Carnegie had nickel keys, and the Capital had a sterling neck. Besides that they are exactly the same. Nice horn, more modern-toned, brighter than the two above but a nice tonality. Aesthetics is pretty good, some typical wear but all in all pretty good. A bit more of a workhorse model than the above but IMHO it stands up to a Yama 475 pretty well. $675

Giardinelli GAS10, Taiwan....this is actually an Eastman 640, one of their two pro lines up until maybe 6 years ago. Giardinelli makes mediocre student horns but they wanted a pro line so they had Eastman make the 10 line. NICE horn. I would say it is probably the best of the group, by a hair over the Buffet and two hairs over the Jupe silver. Also has a nice warmer, rounder tone than the conventional alto tonality. Good shape, $1150
 
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Either one will suit you just fine.

FWIW I would pick the Giardinelli because I am familiar with Eastman horns and prejudiced against Buffet saxophones (I have a Buffet clarinet that nobody can have until after I’m dead). I’ve never played the Buffet models George mentions, and likely never will…. The Eastmans I have seen and heard are excellent. So I am biased, perhaps unreasonably, but you asked for recommendations.
 
I noticed you didn't mention Cannonball, Schiller or Giardinelli... are they not very good are what. Just asking.
You're paying a premium for new (ish) and for it being a Selmer Super Action 80 COPY. The previously mentioned horns, mostly from "student" ranks or second line (as, Martin Indiana, King Cleveland, Conn Director, etc.) have zero cachet so you're paying for all horn. $1500 buys you one of those type horns with the action gone totally through, adjusted to a nicety, friction reduced, really really tuned to the best it can be; I don't know for sure but I suspect a $1500 Cannonball is used hard and put away wet.

For that matter, I suspect you can get a pretty nice Holton or York top line horn for not much more than that.

I own a very nice Conn 10M tenor, which plays beautifully; but I'm also well satisfied when I use my Mexi-Conn 16M. Sounds and plays just like any other Conn tenor, less refined key action (which I've done basically nothing to slick it up), but I've used it on professional gigs with no issue.

[edit: first sentence should have had the word "COPY".]
 
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EPILOGUE POST

I appreciate everyone who recommended my biz, thank you all. Just wanna follow up with where all of this ended up, and make a few observations if you don't mind.

The quoted list of saxes the OP posted above were my offerings, my descriptions. This biz can be fun and rewarding at times, for me particularly in two ways:

1) taking an old horn which has been either neglected or simply ignored, or maybe even played half to death...and resuscitating it back to top playing form then getting it back out into player curculation. Emotionally, nothing better than giving a refurbed horn its first playtest after I am 80% done with it and hearing it sing, and feeling its abilities returned to it.

2) something which has probably hurt me badly over the years, financially: my insistence on offering horns which are affordable. I have little interest in flipping grails. This has led me to learn a lot about what exactly is under the hood of many models people will dismiss almost immediately as not worth it. Especially when over the years I see other owners of the model posting how happy they are with it...this can multiply until a model which, when I first started doing this 17 years ago, had no reputation or a bad one, online (based mostly on hearsay or the failure to connect the fact that maybe that old horn played sucky because it hadn't been serviced in 25 years, not because the model was intrinsically poor)...today has a pretty solid reputation as a wise buy (Conn 16M, Martin Indiana, Beaugnier-made horns, Holtons just a few off the top of my head which have achieved the respect they did not once garner, or discovering that most Jupiters can go 15 rounds with most Yamahas, and discovering that Allora intermediate models are actually quite solid...the list goes on....).

On the flip side, there are things which sorta suck the energy out of me in this biz...but they are part of the biz. The first is

1) Tire-kickers...people who inquire , seemingly seriously, but are only gathering info with no intention, from the get-go of proceeding with any purchase. Right when it seems like the deal is close, they either vanish with no trace or say "great thanks, I don't have the money but maybe I'll get back to you when I do". If it is a short email relationship, easier to let roll off, But of it is one which becomes protracted, litany of questions, repeated requests for more detailed photos, etc,,,now that is actually utilizing some significant time and effort for me, being a one-man shop. Unfortunately, such was the case with the inquirer here, a thread I didn't realize existed until I stumbled across it yesterday.
Just b#tching, really....this stuff comes with the job... but I gotta say it has become way more prevalent than it was like 8 or 9 years ago. He alone is not guilty of this, as I said, it has become pretty common these days...where used to be people would asterisk their messages with "just to let you know, I am just starting to gather info" or the like.

2) comments/suggestions indvertently dismissing a model/brand which someone has never even held in their hands, and a model which doesn't have a questionable online rep, really.
I was discussing with the inquirer via email these 4 horns and he would come back nixing one or the other from the list. Fair enough, I figured he was getting info from somewhere.

But given his (ostensible) price constraints, he nixed the TWO most VIABLE options for acquiring a really GOOD horn for his budget...the Carnegie and the Buffet 100. Everyone tosses Jupiters (foolishly) so that wasn't a big surprise (albeit not a wise dismissal).

But let me just mention this for posterity:

The Eastman/Giard is a pro horn, period. But the Buffet 100...isn't that far behind it. To the degree where a respectable "leaving beginner heading towards intermediate" player, looking for a more serious horn than a default suggested student model.... if playtesting the two side by side...probably would not be able to conclude one is 'better' than the other.
That's how close they are.
They'd probably be able to identify aspects of one they prefer to the other, but in a blindfold, this would be a fairly competitive race.

So I guess I'd ask....folks...please if you have the inclination to do that, and it's always tempting....consider not doing it.
This stuff is written in black and white... and 100 other people over the next 10 years of forum surfing can stumble upon it and have their opinions colored by it...so if that is the reality, at least have the opinion colored by someone who played the model. (I admit I am being cranky here, sorry).

In instances where I have not actually held a model in question, the most critical I can ever be about it is "I haven't had experience with it but other reports here regarding it are spotty/mediocre/leaning positive/pretty dismal"....etc... you get the drift....

Thx
 
EPILOGUE POST

... This has led me to learn a lot about what exactly is under the hood of many models people will dismiss almost immediately as not worth it. Especially when over the years I see other owners of the model posting how happy they are with it...this can multiply until a model which, when I first started doing this 17 years ago, had no reputation or a bad one, online (based mostly on hearsay or the failure to connect the fact that maybe that old horn played sucky because it hadn't been serviced in 25 years, not because the model was intrinsically poor)...today has a pretty solid reputation as a wise buy (Conn 16M, Martin Indiana, Beaugnier-made horns, Holtons just a few off the top of my head which have achieved the respect they did not once garner).
...
Well, when I started playing saxophone in the late 70s, the following were considered "cheap crappy student horns that all play out of tune":

Conn (all - I bought my 6M for $130)
King (all - I SHOULD HAVE bought that all-pearls Super 20 tenor for $400)
Martin
Buescher
Holton (the first soprano I ever owned, I bought a Holton from a guy who said "this thing doesn't play in tune" - $125 - with a Meyer and a Selmer Soloist in the case - I took it home, shoved the mouthpiece way onto the cork, it played PERFECTLY in tune..)
York

the common comment was "Yamaha make good motorbikes, but their saxophones are junk" - NOPE

And then there were Pan Ams, Evettes, Clevelands, Indianas, Elkharts, and a bunch of other no-names. Most of these were probably perfectly good horns before they were marched in the rain for 10 seasons.
 

Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀

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