Tech/maintenance Saxophone Mythbusters

What if somebody in the audience is leaving or appearing? How do we manage this dramatic change in acoustic?

I learned the hard way how to deal with acoustic changes:

- at home I have some unpleasant high frequencies around that always make me think that I have a wrong reed. I test my equipment at gigs and just suffer un silence thinking that the sound is not as bad as it seems.
- if more than one ex-girlfriend appears in the audience I simulate a heart attack and lay on stage, surrounded my worried-acting fellow players, until the ladies go. In extreme cases I call a long bass solo and alert security when the ex-gfs start chatting, to kick them out.
 
The saxophone resonator thing is provably true. A non-reusable (rivet-backed) metal domed resonator of the size that commonly goes in the low D on a Selmer tenor weighs a bit under a gram, with a tiny bit of variance depending on your supplier. A reusable metal resonator like the Tonex from Selmer or the nice ones made by Tenor Madness weigh about 4 grams- and some resonators with heavier construction (which I am not personally a fan of) weigh quite a bit more than that. Considering that the spring acts with minimal mechanical advantage close to the fulcrum of the key and that the resonator is pretty far from the fulcrum, that additional weight (400% as much in this case) is going to make a difference in the feel and mechanical operation (spring tension, bounce, noise) of the key. Either one can be set up correctly.
 
Many of these statements are not so much myths as subjects for endless, unresolved, debate.
Some of them have almost reached "Internet Forum Treasure" status, like elderly TV stars.

So we should not forget the venerable and much-loved:
"Silver-plated saxophones have a brighter sound"

I've heard that old chestnut, and also the one that nickel-plated horns sound "dark" and gold-plated horns sound "warm". Nope, I don't understand it, either. It's all gibberish.
 
Never buy a neck strap with a plastic hook because it will snap or one with a metal hook because it'll eat through the strap ring or scratch your beloved sax

Hmmm... I've seen some vintage horns with the strap-ring practically worn through because a steel strap-hook was used for many years. If there's a "fight" between steel and brass, steel will always win. With that said, I've used plastic strap-hooks for many years - and never had one snap on me. Plastic hooks may have been dodgy in the past, but now we have much better materials.
 
I would counter that vintage saxes sound different, not better or worse. This is because of different bore dimensions, and different tonehole sizes and placement. To me a key aspect to remember is that when most vintage saxes ie. old Conns, Bueschers, etc. were made, the concept of how a saxophone should sound was much different than it is today as evidenced by the recordings from that era.
:sax:

Sound recordings from the era a saxophone dates from can be very informative - and also downright strange by "modern" standards. Listen to this little gem from 1934 and notice the pronounced sax vibrato:-

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30902FfYDyA

There's a fair chance (I can't know for sure) that the sax section in that 1934 recording is playing Conn NW2s and/or "Transitionals" or Buescher Truetones & early Aristocrats. Perhaps 80 years from now, future generations will hear saxophone recordings made in 2016, and consider how quaint they sound.

Incidentally, for those who are wondering, that particular recording was indeed used in Stanley Kubrick's 1980 horror movie "The Shining". But that's not as interesting as the fate which befell the singer, Al Bowlly. Google him.

Now, contrast it with this recording made by Tommy Dorsey just 9 years later in 1943. Spot the difference! Please note that this is a very early *STEREO* recording (extremely rare) so turn up your speakers. I just love this music because it bounces along like a rubber ball. It's gorgeous. Keep your Glen Miller and give me the Dorsey Brothers:-

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N2aEmcEbyg
 
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The saxophone resonator thing is provably true. A non-reusable (rivet-backed) metal domed resonator of the size that commonly goes in the low D on a Selmer tenor weighs a bit under a gram, with a tiny bit of variance depending on your supplier. A reusable metal resonator like the Tonex from Selmer or the nice ones made by Tenor Madness weigh about 4 grams- and some resonators with heavier construction (which I am not personally a fan of) weigh quite a bit more than that. Considering that the spring acts with minimal mechanical advantage close to the fulcrum of the key and that the resonator is pretty far from the fulcrum, that additional weight (400% as much in this case) is going to make a difference in the feel and mechanical operation (spring tension, bounce, noise) of the key. Either one can be set up correctly.

In my original post I was comparing a "traditional" metal resonator with a "traditional" plastic resonator having a measured .5 gram weight difference equal to the weight of a 3" x 3" post-it-note. I acknowledged in the last sentence of the post that there are thicker and heavier resonators for which the difference would be greater. I think it is important to remember that a 3 gram (6 post-it-notes) difference in the weight of a key is still a relatively small amount of weight difference, and that what the player "feels" is not the weight of the key itself, but the resistance of the spring tension required to open the key quickly to its fully open position.

It is also important to remember that Dr. Pauline Eveno's study showed that there is no significant or discernible tonal difference between plastic and metal resonators (pad covers) of equal sizes. This would suggest that choosing heavy "special" or "custom" metal resos would be more a matter of "bling" or "status" than a matter of acoustics.
 
I take my Gutiars to a tech...should I take a Yamaha yas 480 to a tech and have it set up? Or is it as good as it gets from the factory and doez this instrument have resonators? Another thing from these post leave me with a comment....I am to a place where how can you guys tell what sounds better. Especially with my 9 mouthpiece I spend hours getting different sounds bending pitches trying to bend down a exact half step for example so much is your lips your mouth your vocals in diaphragm. Then if you apply vocal techniques and tried just making weird sounds. I just have a hard time figuring out what's the instrument and whats me. When you go to high octave it changes how the Reed vibrates . so is it the Equipment or does the equipment make you subconsciously do something different? Sometimes this saxophone really bakes my brain
 
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Can't do any harm going to a good tech and getting it tweaked. Factory setups aren't always perfect, springs can be lightened etc.

Don't change your kit, continue experimenting. The difference in sound between the octaves is not due to the reed, it's due to the way the sax works. In the lower register the sax plays the note you want, the note an octave above it, the note a fifth above that and quite a few more notes above that, all at the same time. Each higher note is quieter than the note before it, so you hear the lowest note being played, the fundamental, with the other notes, the overtones, contributing. It's why the sound is so rich.

When you press the octave key, it cuts out the fundamental, you hear the next note up as the lowest note. So it sounds an octave up. But thinner because instead of having fundamental, octave, fifth... You have octave, fifth....
 
I take my Gutiars to a tech...should I take a Yamaha yas 480 to a tech and have it set up? Or is it as good as it gets from the factory and doez this instrument have resonators?

You shouldn't 'have' to take your horn to a tech - but it's often worthwhile to do so.
A factory-fresh horn is set up in a way that ensures it works (hopefully) - and in such a way that will likely appeal to the broadest range of players. But there's quite a difference in a horn that just works and one that's been carefully tweaked to both get the best out of it and to tailor it to the specific needs of the player.

For example, the height of the action from the factory is typically about 25% higher than it needs to be.
It's set like this because the lower you set the action, the more risk there is of the keys 'shading' certain notes - which leads to tuning problems and a reduction in tone. Balancing this out takes time, so for cost-effectiveness it's easier to set the action to a height where this isn't going to be an issue.
Likewise the spring tension will be set to throw up the least amount of issues - and to disguise slight flaws in the integrity of the pad seals ( you have to press harder to close a strongly-sprung key, and the harder you press, the more force you'll extert on the pad).

There may also be some storage issues to deal with. Saxes can be quite 'organic' - which is to say that once you've put them together and set everything up, some parameters may change while the instrument is waiting in the warehouse/shop. Pads can absorb moisture, corks and felts can compress...and even stresses in the metal can 'unwind'. None of this is likely to stop an instrument dead in its tracks, but it can certainly knock a few percentage points off the playability.

And there's also the issue of build quality.
From a repairer's perspective the general standard of manufacture is quite low. It's extremely common for us to be dealing with the sort of excess, unwanted movement in the keywork on a new horn as we might expect to see on a fine old Selmer that's seen a good few years of wear and tear. Again, it's unlikely such wear will stop a horn dead - but, again, it knocks a few percent off the playability.
Correcting these issues gets the best out of a horn, and helps to ensure it stays that way for some time.

Finally, it gives you - the player - the comfort of knowing your horn is performing at 100%, and that any issues you have with your playing are solely down to you and your technique. If there's a lick you can't quite get your fingers around, it's down to you to shed it until you can - but if there's a spot of misregulation or a small leak, you might never nail that lick.

As for resonators - yes, your Yamaha has them, as does every modern horn.
Over here we tend to call them 'reflectors'. It's a more accurate description of their function - which is simply to reduce the amount of absorbent material in the bore of the horn and to help prevent the skin of the pad from flapping about in the breeze.
 
I am already changing keys signatures to fit the alto this really is going to be the norm. Adjusting key signatures to fit the best sound of my horn. Lol I feel sorry for any inexperienced guitar players I have to hire
 
Yes, and the difference is even more noticeable between bari and alto. Bari octaves are thin, weedy, strained compared to the same note on alto without the octave key.
I think it also depends on who is playing the instrument. 😉 I wouldn't say one sounds better or worse than another in a given range. They just sound "different". That is what adds the color and interest of each size of saxophone. It would be boring if they all sounded the same. Think of taking a sax quartet and playing all four parts on tenor how that would sound compared to SATB. :doh:
 
I think it also depends on who is playing the instrument. 😉 I wouldn't say one sounds better or worse than another in a given range. They just sound "different". That is what adds the color and interest of each size of saxophone. It would be boring if they all sounded the same. Think of taking a sax quartet and playing all four parts on tenor how that would sound compared to SATB. :doh:

Tenor conclave is an old album 1956 I recently discovered. Four tenors sounding fabulous when played together, and each quite distinctive.

View: https://youtu.be/7fLnT0KwJTI


I know what you mean though. I don't think anybody would call any part of Mulligans baritone thin and Desmond's tone, through the whole range can hold its own with any soprano.
 
Actually I was not fond of that but may have been the recording. It was thin. A trombone would have helped. Still hard to really tell could be the recording eq. Or the room. But I am understanding why I do things. I always keep sax in there range never liked them in their octaves I always give the high parts to the trumpet and opt for trombones over a bari .I like altos and tennors and I like the soprano but still high screams go to the trumpet or distorted guitar. But even trombones I prefer the bass guitar playing those parts . trombones can walk on the bass. I know now why I do arrangements this way.
 
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I think it also depends on who is playing the instrument. 😉 I wouldn't say one sounds better or worse than another in a given range. They just sound "different". That is what adds the color and interest of each size of saxophone. It would be boring if they all sounded the same. Think of taking a sax quartet and playing all four parts on tenor how that would sound compared to SATB. :doh:
Yes, but... Some sax sounds I don't like for exactly the reasons I gave. I love the sop, especially in the lower register, but it depends who's playing it. And getting a decent sound out of it is difficult. I'm not keen on Desmond's sound, but I love the way he played. I've been listening to Ben Webster a lot recently. Really appeals to me.
 
Vintage saxes require a vintage big bore mouthpiece. Nope, not necessarily, I've played an Oleg Maestro on a Buescher true Tone. Played perfectly in tune.

I found that my 1929 Buescher Truetone altos are happy with a current production (made circa 2007) Yanagisawa hard rubber mouthpiece, or a 1990s Selmer S80 hard rubber mouthpiece. With that said, it's true that they're all guaranteed to work with vintage big-bore mouthpieces - simply because that's what they left the Elkhart factory with during the 1920s. Whether you actually like the sound they give or not is an entirely different matter...

If you want a truly "mouthpiece agnostic" sax, there's the Yamaha YAS-21, 23, 25, 275 and 280. They are very forgiving - and work with pretty much anything you put on them.
 

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