Teaching Grades or No Grades?

[jambo]

I have a conundrum, which I thought you guys might have some opinions on.

My Teacher has suggested that I do some grades on my Sax. He says it will help with many aspects of my playing (Tone, Technical Skill, sight reading, knowledge of music, playing by ear ect) and that I cant loose anything and I will never regret doing it.

I do see his point and I have been thinking seriously about it. The thing is, i don't really enjoy sight reading... I would much prefer to play with the heart if you know what I mean. I have such hard trouble actually concentrating and practicing sight reading. Even though the most important thing about playing music is too enjoy it, I cant help thinking that in order to really become a GOOD saxophonist, I need to do the grades. It would also be good to do them if I want to teach the saxophone in the future. And i don't see how im going to really improve that much if I just go round playing random stuff

What do you guys think? Struggle through the grade and invest in my future, or be lazy but enjoy jamming to Cd's.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Wheter you do grades or not, I think it's really useful to be able to sight read. If its the grades tyhat make you disclined enough to learn, then its worth doing. I never did any grades but did make sure I could sight read quite well.

 

[Pjonah]

Your teacher has made some good points, its not going to do you any harm, whilst its not totally necessary to read music, it certainly helps if you can at least understand it.

I'm not a good sight reader, prefering to use the music as a guide. However, a full understanding of scales, chords and chord progressions will help you develop your ability to improvise and jazz it. Not that the grading system will be of much use here!

There is a lot to take on board, but anything which helps or challenges you has got to be a good thing and so my advice would be to take some form of formal exam, not necessarily the Grades though. At least in that way you can be happy in your mind that ten years down the line you served your time.

If you are set on becoming a pro then sadly you gotta put the graft in, or you get nowt back. Jamming to cd's is good fun, but you don't mention if you are in a band. If you're not in a band I would seriously look at that, you will come on in leaps and bounds in a group. First time on stage soloing is a scary one but once you get used to it, its awesome, there's only one better buzz!

I sometimes think my indifference to taking formal exams has probably held me back, just my opinion though, for what its worth.

Simon

 

[jonf]

Hmmm

I did grades on clarinet when I was a kid, up to and including grade 8. There's no doubt that doing grades has benefits, in teaching you more about musical notation, structure of notes, chords, etc. Sight reading is one part of the grade structure, but by no means all. The majority of the effort involved is in learning to play test pieces to a high standard. That in itself is quite far removed from sight reading.

I also think that the assertion that doing grades can do no harm is flawed. The pieces that have to be played are generally stultifyingly boring classical pieces. There is a very real risk that studying for grades can lead to boredom which makes practising a chore rather than a pleasure.

It may well be that the piece lists have changed in the 25 years since I did mine (although I doubt it as they had'nt changed in the 25 before that). I'd make pretty sure you are have tunes you are happy to spend loads and loads of time playing before you emabark on studying grades.

It was just this sort of thing that led me to take up the sax all those years ago.... 🙂

 

[Linky Lee]

I say do them but don't get caught up on them! Many people waste so much talent and opportunity staying at home drilling three pieces for one exam then move on to the next one etc.

There is no doubt the content will help make you a more rounded player, especially with the theory, aural and sight reading which is essential I'm afraid, especially if you wan to teach.

Maybe you could do the jazz exam syllabus which might benefit you better as it can include improvisation and things that aren't in the 'classical' exams. If you do Guildhall exams you can choose what two things you want to do, so you could opt not to do aural but I think sight reading is mandatory 😛

the best players aren't soloists though, so spending a lot of time studying which you would of spent playing with others isn't always better for your progression.

I'm taking my grade 8 sax this summer, though I have no need of it, it may be useful later on and it's good to have in the meantime until I get my degree, especially as I want to teach whilst I'm at uni to get by money-wise.

Like someone said. you don't really start studying 'real' music until around grade 6 and even then there are exercise like pieces.

 

[fecklesseric]

A potential alternative to grades that I use is to buy books of graded excercises. I've got a couple of sets, and they are good in that they get you to read some fairly complex musical notation, and the good ones try to cover all the technical bases.

I dip in and out of and have found them invaluable for improving technique - much more efficient than serial grades!

 

[suethesax]

I'd say do both - continue to play along to CD's and do grades. If it sight reading that is stumping you the grades will help as you have to read the chosen pieces well. I agree that you should not get hooked solely into grades to the exclusion of all else. You would easily get fed up. What grade would you start with. Not sure if you are aware (your teacher should be) if you go for grades 6-8 you need grade 5 theory (ABRSM). Also as Linky says the jazz grades are great.

Let us know what you decide and good luck

 

[whatever]

I think it is very good to help and encourage you to play sax seriously (at least for a while) and it does give you certain self recognition...plus doing grades in UK is cheap~~~~

 

[Linky Lee]

why should it cost at all?

It's going to cost you a tidy sum for the accompanist and a few rehearsals along with the exam fees. I wouldn't say that's exactly cheap for the bit of paper saying you can do it.

If you need to be under the pressure of being examined to self motivate you need to sort out why you play saxophone and what you want from it. If you want to play seriously you have to self motivate from that desire. If you're just playing for fun but would like to get something from it however small then a grade may be useful.

Just my thoughts anyway.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Linky_Lee wrote:
If you need to be under the pressure of being examined to self motivate you need to sort out why you play saxophone and what you want from it. If you want to play seriously you have to self motivate from that desire.

I can understand that very often its useful to have other kinds of motivation, e.g something like grade exams. Over many years I have sometimes been self motivated, but at other times I have been grateful for external motivation in various forms and guises, whether it's an exam, a job interview or just being on a gig that feels like you've been thrown in at the deep end. I'd love to be self motivated enough to improve without any of that kind of stuff but unfortunately I'm not (maybe one day)

 

[Linky Lee]

I know what you mean Pete, I am not like that either, though I wish I could be.

The point I failed to make was that we shouldn't depend entirely upon outside motivational sources.

I quite enjoy getting thrown in at the deep end. I certainly enjoy being with better players, it always seems to make you step up your game sub-consciously and I think learn more as well.

You can learn a lot just by watching, but playing a gig with them is better than a bunch of most tutored lessons.

 

[Bobby G]

Linky_Lee wrote:
I know what you mean Pete, I am not like that either, though I wish I could be.

The point I failed to make was that we shouldn't depend entirely upon outside motivational sources.

I quite enjoy getting thrown in at the deep end. I certainly enjoy being with better players, it always seems to make you step up your game sub-consciously and I think learn more as well.

You can learn a lot just by watching, but playing a gig with them is better than a bunch of most tutored lessons.

Amen to that Lee 🙂 Of course, on the other hand, I wonder how the good, experienced players feel about someone more limited playing with them - hopefully encouraging and positive as everyone's been there, but you do get the occasional one who definitely seems to be itchy-fingeredly waiting his turn just so he can blow the newbies away.

Cheers, Bob

 

[whatever]

I mean no offence at all in my previous reply.

Just saying that relatively to the oversea fees to take ABRSM exams.

 

[Simon]

Go for it Jambo!

I passed grade 5 of abrsm jazz sax on alto a coupla years back - and you don't have to sightread any of it if you don't want to... i didn't have any music with me in the exam itself, and the quick studies / aural questions can be done by ear too. the whole thing is packaged beautifully on CD where you can hear the tunes, get the playalong and get an idea of the quick studies/aural tests too.

you can always waffle on about 'extrinsic vs intrinsic motivation' but who cares? at the end of the day its what moves yer and makes playing fun. I was 32 when i did it and it was a sense of achievement too - i hadn't done any formal practical music exams before.

simon

Jambo wrote:
I have a conundrum, which I thought you guys might have some opinions on.

My Teacher has suggested that I do some grades on my Sax. He says it will help with many aspects of my playing (Tone, Technical Skill, sight reading, knowledge of music, playing by ear ect) and that I cant loose anything and I will never regret doing it.

I do see his point and I have been thinking seriously about it. The thing is, i don't really enjoy sight reading... I would much prefer to play with the heart if you know what I mean. I have such hard trouble actually concentrating and practicing sight reading. Even though the most important thing about playing music is too enjoy it, I cant help thinking that in order to really become a GOOD saxophonist, I need to do the grades. It would also be good to do them if I want to teach the saxophone in the future. And i don't see how im going to really improve that much if I just go round playing random stuff

What do you guys think? Struggle through the grade and invest in my future, or be lazy but enjoy jamming to Cd's.

 

[Linky Lee]

It's a pity for the people who regularly take exams that they haven't made the jazz syllabus for saxophone up to a 'grade 8' yet.

The Jazz exams don't have as much stature as the classical yet which is also a pity, If they had some higher grades I think that would help to move it on.

 

[simon_andrews]

I was looking at doin my jazz grades but they are quite a bit dearer than the normal grades when you look at the material you have to buy it all adds up. I opted for the regular grades (ABRSM) I'm currently studying for Grade 4. It is the first grade I will take as I was literate to a certain extent in music at the start.

The Pieces for grade 4 that I am playing are

George Gershwin Rapsody in Blue (Without the Big slide at the beginning )

a song called Vivace which I was not previously familiar with.

And A song called Rag Time Sax form the sixty for sax book.

Its not hard pieces but the sight reading is quite hard. I find it hard not to be hesitant sometimes, but I'm getting there. I'm sure I'll Pass.

 

[simon_andrews]

I was looking at doin my jazz grades but they are quite a bit dearer than the normal grades when you look at the material you have to buy it all adds up. I opted for the regular grades (ABRSM) I'm currently studying for Grade 4. It is the first grade I will take as I was literate to a certain extent in music at the start.

The Pieces for grade 4 that I am playing are

George Gershwin Rapsody in Blue (Without the Big slide at the beginning )

a song called Vivace which I was not previously familiar with.

And A song called Rag Time Sax form the sixty for sax book.

Its not hard pieces but the sight reading is quite hard. I find it hard not to be hesitant sometimes, but I'm getting there. I'm sure I'll Pass.

 

[Linky Lee]

The sight reading isn't too bad if you approach it in the right method.

They have certain formulas for the sight reading. I can almost guarantee you that it will be in the key of a newly introduced key of from the grade 3 syllabus. It will most likely be in 4/4 3/4 or 6/8 at the grade four level (basic time signatures that have been met by grade 3)

and it will use music vocabulary that is fairly common to slightly rare. Maybe you'll come across something like Maestoso.

It will probably only be around 20 bars long, they may even stop you early.

I don't know how your teacher is getting you to 'practise' sight reading. I've found a few methods that work.

You have a minute. SO what do you do?

1. Key
2. Time Signature
3. ROUGH! Tempo (there is huge amounts of leway allowed, though if you're inconsistent it may be deemed you don't understand the tempo)
4. look at the dynamics, take some of the more important ones and make sure you play them, you're not going for 100% accuracy, if you try many people will get flustered and go to pieces.
5. quickly glance through the piece for big jumps, a passage with lots of accidentals or extreme register. If any of these jump out at you, stick the horn in your mouth and get a basic idea for them.

that's most likely your minute, so now start slower than you think the tempo should be, you're likely to speed up because of nerves, and then slow back down again when you reach an awkward passage.

If you can learn to almost read ahead of what you are playing then that helps, but the main thing is to keep a cool head and never stop playing until the end even if you're making it up.

With the sight reading it can be passed by exam technique more than actually having the ability to play accurately from sight.

get some of the practise pieces and do one a week. Make sure you've given yourself enough time to forget it by the next time you come around. Maybe decrease the preparation time by 10 seconds each time you revisit a piece or something.

Vivace is a good piece, I enjoyed playing that. Though I've never taken an exam in saxophone yet... this summer though.

 

[philthd]

i took grade 8 jazz sax 10 years ago

i am a significantly better player now than i was then, and would still only rate myself somewhere between competant and mediocre on a good day.

it has its advantages, and limited amount of bragging rights, and did make me learn to play parkers mood as my unaccompanied piece (they all look much easier than that these days) but i wouldnt attach much importance to it.

 

[Linky Lee]

was that the guildhall jazz syllabus?

I know that ABRSM only goes up to grade 5 at the moment.