"Doubled" instruments - straight AND chaser

[jools]

Many sax players 'double' (or perform) on other instruments. Some other players double on sax. Dizzy Gillespie was a blinding pianist, Charlie Parker was a decent drummer, Art Pepper often played clarinet, Nat Cole began as a bebop pianist and on and on, It's a common phenomenon, and usually broadens the players 'gig-ability' and keeps them in work.

What's yours? - and if you don't have one, what would you choose?

 

[Tenor Sax]

I've considered doubling on the Flute.

Paranoia has held me back ?? My practice time is limited, taking on a new Instrument may affect practice on either one or both.

So here I sit in my safety zone.
:S

 

[sharon]

Oh well I don't know if I'd be grand enough to call it doubling as that suggests an element of expertise 😛 I am sort of teaching myself to play my daughter's clarinet so I suppose it's technically doubling. I thought I'd try it just to see what it was like and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I have to play it secretly when she's in school though (she doesn't like me playing it) which limits my time to 2/3 times a week so my progress is rather slow - although there is definate progress and I can now play above the break (with mixed results).

I wonder if this sort of thing can get addictive - you know just learning to play different instruments. My son has an acoustic guitar which is languishing how hard could it be............hmmmm :whistle:

 

[Bobby G]

I could definitely double on guitar (mainly rivvum or acoustic) and the bass is something I can always just pick up again at will. Other than that, I could get by in a basic way on drums ad keyboards - maybe not strictly doubling, but good enough if the opportunity came up to do some 'look, I've played everything' home recordings.

Also willing to double on harmony/backing vocals.

 

[Jules]

The one I've most often used is Tenor sax and harmonica in various R&B/blues bands, though I've also doubled flute and tenor on various gigs (usually our own brand of amateurish latin!) and once or twice acted as back up rhythm guitarist.
Oh- and I once had a one finger keyboard riff to play on a B52s medley!

 

[dooce]

When our band started, I was on keyboards, doing numbers from Grease, to back a village hall cabaret. I just taught myself the chords and ploughed through them, parrot-fashion. Same with guitar - I manage a few numbers doing rhythm when our guitar-god guitarist needs some fill behind his Stevie Ray Vaughan solos. I could seriously double on flute if needed - but with a repertoire of old fashioned R&B, rock and soul, somehow the need has never arisen..........

 

[jools]

Hmm Dooce, I have a similar dilemma.

It's not too bad with our band as I get to toot-me-floot often enough, but I've been seriously thinking of adding the blues harp.

I really want to get into some filthy dirty harp playing, but have never tried it. Love that R&B sound though, not unlike a sax in timbre. If I was to get one (and some of you know I will...) which key should I get to be most useful in a blues/ rock setting? And also, I guess, which brand. I've read a lot about Lee Oskars, and some people swear by them. Others, swear AT them. - At a loss as to where to go. ...Nachoman? - whatcha reckon?

 

[PaulyT]

Blues Harps - I use Lee Oskars I play a D harp when the rest of the band are playing in A and a C when they're in G.
I only play on two numbers, "Worried about you Baby" (Howlin' Wolf) and "Long Train Running", (The Doobie Brothers).
Because it's only two numbers I blow straight through the vocal mic but some people will either set up a separate mic or even play through a guitar amp.
Kim Wilson of The Fabulous Thunderbirds used to like to play through two mic-ed up Fender Vibroverbs!
Any overdriven little valve amp will give a nice dirty blues sound.
As for another instrument, I too am scouring the devils junkyard for a bargain flute!!
Pauly T

 

[Jules]

Yup- I'm with Pauly on this- Lee Oskars and, if you get the chance- run the whole set up through a guitar practice amp which is cranked up to distortion levels. A basic echo pedal is also good for thickening the tone plus a graphic to help cut out feedback. Best set up I ever had was a really old Watkins Dominator amp (small 1960s valve amp) and a tape echo- incredible sound but incredibly fragile and prone to going wrong. As for which key- pretty much depends on what keys your fellow players tend to play in- C tends to be the usual one to start with, allows for 12 bar blues progressions in G and also hovering around in a D minor sort of way...

 

[Bobby G]

nachoman wrote:

Oh- and I once had a one finger keyboard riff to play on a B52s medley!

Rock Lobster?


At the Half Moon jam, the blues-harp player was using one of those big old fat mics (a ribbon mic?) which certainly had that authentic sound.

 

[jools]

Ok. Nachoman and PaulyT... I am now starting to feel like a MAJOR newbie.

Pauly.. you say "I play a D harp when the rest of the band are playing in A and a C when they're in G." What on earth does that mean? why? how? and many other questions.... AGH.

As for key... I (naturally) assume that most guitarists work in E, A, D, and G - (sharp keys mainly) -most of the tunes we do in the band are heading that way. Csharp or Aflat is never going to happen.

A mate of mine (Moses Anderson) uses a "Bullet Mic". Is that good? what is it and why?- I have numerous small amps, and distortion aint going to be a problem. LOL

 

[mfox]

i only play sax seriously, but i do play quite a few instument.
i play keys, bass,drums. i sing.i play percussion also.. all these things i'm quite happy to play publicly.

i've played with monica players and i have never tried understand the thing with the keys..but as im typing this one thing has entered my mind.."relative minor and the blues scale" ( now anyone wants to use that for a band name feel free)
i don't know how monicas are set out, i don't think they are chromatic. so if any gob iron player could let me know i would be greatful..

 

[Bobby G]

You do get chromatic harmonicas but yes the blues harp is restricted to a scale in one key only so you play a harp in the non-root key (is it the dom or sub-dom?) that lets you get those juicy blue notes and wailing pitch-bends. This is why blues harp players carry a few around.

 

[jools]

Ok - so specific question... if a tune is in E minor with a bridge in A minor. Which harp is going to work with that?

I am also thinking that if they are pitched in (for eg) C - when you blow, but A minor when you suck (?)

 

[old_git]

Be careful!!!!!!!
They normally play blues in what they refer to as the second position. Couldn't find it in 'The Perfumed Garden'
They have their own version of GAS, special tuners and modifiers, all very costly.
Cheaper to be a siffleur.

 

[frankb]

Another vote for Lee Oskars.

You'll also find that they have the 1st position key marked on one end of the harp (straight harp, generally forget about it!) and the second position key (cross harp, usually the one that matters) marked on the other.

These pages might help -
http://www.leeoskar.com/shchframe.html
http://www.leeoskar.com/majorframe.html

 

[Basil]

I have quite fancied a bash at the clarinet...I just love the old chicago 20's sound that they are used for..but as I have only been learning the alto for 10 months, I have kind of assumed that trying to learn the 2 simultaneously would be confusing, and would interfere with my still developing feel for the instrument.

I also understand that the fingering in the second register differs from the first ?, which would also confuse me totally. I have enough problem remembering certain fingering without them being different for different instruments. Does anyone have any views on this ? Is it sensible to wait, or should I grasp the moment ??? :S

 

[sharon]

Basil wrote:
I have quite fancied a bash at the clarinet...I just love the old chicago 20's sound that they are used for..but as I have only been learning the alto for 10 months, I have kind of assumed that trying to learn the 2 simultaneously would be confusing, and would interfere with my still developing feel for the instrument.

I also understand that the fingering in the second register differs from the first ?, which would also confuse me totally. I have enough problem remembering certain fingering without them being different for different instruments. Does anyone have any views on this ? Is it sensible to wait, or should I grasp the moment ??? :S

I did exactly this after playing alto about the same length of time as you, because there was a clarinet in the house. I love it but don't play it as much as the sax. It's sort of a part timey thing. It probably is sensible to wait but hey I waited 42 years to play any instrument so I'm kind of making up for lost time.

I personally don't find it interferes with my sax playing or confuse me in any way. The fingerings are different and playing above the break is IMHO harder than playing the octave on sax, but that might be because I put in less time. I enjoy it though and that's what it's all about for me.

Sharon

 

[Jules]

Jools wrote:
Ok - so specific question... if a tune is in E minor with a bridge in A minor. Which harp is going to work with that?

I am also thinking that if they are pitched in (for eg) C - when you blow, but A minor when you suck (?)

This gets pretty esoteric and there's a fair bit of trial and error if you're working with elaborate chord sequences. Basically the default "second position" is for playing 12 bar blues- choose a harp in the key of the 4th of the music (G blues- a harp in C)- that way you end up with minor-ish collection of notes over your root chord, you'll be playing pretty much major over the 4th and minor over the 5th. This isn't an exact science as bending notes complicates (well, actually simplifies) things a lot. Bridges are where this gets tricky- i've ended up having to swap harps mid-tune before now.
As far as green bullet mikes go, they're designed for blues playing-
slightly tinny, quite feedback resistant and they pick up right across their facing- which can be a problem if you're too close to a vocal mike. They are also the right shape to play in cupped hands.- Warning- there are two basic design flaws (IMO) in Green Bullets- firstly their cable is built in so swapping it over if it breaks is a pain, secondly- older ones don't have a volume control so you can't put them down on your amp. I use a Hohner Blues Blaster- same as a green bullet but with an XLR out and a nice, clicky volume pot...

 

[philthd]

sharon wrote:

Basil wrote:
I have quite fancied a bash at the clarinet...I just love the old chicago 20's sound that they are used for..but as I have only been learning the alto for 10 months, I have kind of assumed that trying to learn the 2 simultaneously would be confusing, and would interfere with my still developing feel for the instrument.

I also understand that the fingering in the second register differs from the first ?, which would also confuse me totally. I have enough problem remembering certain fingering without them being different for different instruments. Does anyone have any views on this ? Is it sensible to wait, or should I grasp the moment ??? :S

I did exactly this after playing alto about the same length of time as you, because there was a clarinet in the house. I love it but don't play it as much as the sax. It's sort of a part timey thing. It probably is sensible to wait but hey I waited 42 years to play any instrument so I'm kind of making up for lost time.

I personally don't find it interferes with my sax playing or confuse me in any way. The fingerings are different and playing above the break is IMHO harder than playing the octave on sax, but that might be because I put in less time. I enjoy it though and that's what it's all about for me.

Sharon

when i learnt clarinet (it seems so long ago now) i had passed my grade one exam and had some level of control over the chalameau before my teacher even thought about letting me go above the break into the clarion. these days many instrumental teachers seem to want to teach as many notes as possible as soon as possible and then worry about getting a solid tone - this seems to be entirely the wrong way round to me.

a sax is much more intuitive to play than a clarinet, but overblowing at a 12th instead of an octave gives the clarinet a lot more range.