Saxophone beginners Come on now, join the band....(Beginners blog)

[MikeMorrell]

Got this today, Moanin' solo. Not quite as nasal but still a bit flat.

https://soundcloud.com/cappers-398142602%2F2509_moanin

View: https://soundcloud.com/cappers-398142602/2509_moanin?si=084fc72e405c4966b4189b17f5d0e74c&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

Hi @cappers, just want to add my compliments to those already posted! I agree that it was great to taking on a solo and that timing was pretty much perfect. I also agree that the more you play (solo's) the more you'll learn about to 'tweak' your intonation. @PiccoloPirate's chart was an eye-opener for me!

I'm sure that you already know this but it's worth repeating and taking to heart: the sax is (compared to most other instruments in the band) an 'imperfect instrument'. In other words 'different notes don't stay in exactly the same pitch', Unless you 'help them along' by 'intonation'.

I would always recommend that sax players practice 'intonation' with a 'pitch tuner' so that they gradually learn to play all sax notes 'in tune'

As an amateur (and very lazy) tenor sax player, I've never done this. So I've never reached the 'summum of intonation' through which I can automatically play each note with precisely the right amount of (upward or downward) intonation to always remain completely 'in tune'. Instead, I usually 'tune up' to some 'middle notes' (middle C, D, etc.). I then check mlower and higher notes, which are usually 'slightly off' (sharp or flat). So I tune up to make the 'best average' of the 'middle range' (low D up to high A). Within this range, my sax playing is usually pretty much in tune with the rest of the band. Lower notes are usually not so much of a problem too. It's my higher (octave) notes - C-> F - that tend to be either too sharp or too flat.

The only way that I've ( as a lazy amatuer) found that helps me play in tune is:
- listening to my own playing against the background of the band as a whole: does my sax sound in in tune or slightly sharp or slightly flat?
- slightly adjusting my 'pitch'(for me this means 'embouchure') to slightly flatten or sharpen my pitch

I've found that 'slightly tightening' my embouchure/mouth cavity slightly raises my pitch. Slightly loosening my embouchure/mouth cavity has the opposite effect.

I have no idea whether my (amateur) approach is in any way valid. I'm looking forward to more experienced players chiming in on this. From whom I'm sure I'll learn just as much as you do!

Mike

PS. I really admire your commitment, your learning abilities and the huge progress that you've made in such a short time. My view is that entrusting you with this solo is a real 'vote of confidence' by your band and MD in your abilities and potential. It's a tribute to your talent and development. It's great that you're now asking for tips for 'further improvement'! But please take the time to also (positively) reflect on just how far you've come within such a short space of time!

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Pretty complicated. Time signature is 60/4!

Was scored that way, for children with parents, that are trying to cut down on alcohol consumption.

 

[cappers]

@MikeMorrell Thank you for your positive comments.

I have noticed a recent improvement in overall tone by ensuring the the mouthpiece is in the correct position mpc further on neck and further out of my mouth! I use TE Tuner but more as a backup to my ears which I am trying to develop.

Also been doing lots of long tones and mpc work. I know that some think mpc exercises are pointless but for me it has rapidly improved my ability to manipulate the sound and optimise oral cavity and embouchure. It's far less forgiving than when on the horn. A month ago I could play 2-3 notes on the mpc, now I can do almost an octave.

I've found that 'slightly tightening' my embouchure/mouth cavity slightly raises my pitch. Slightly loosening my embouchure/mouth cavity has the opposite effect.

I have no idea whether my (amateur) approach is in any way valid. I'm looking forward to more experienced players chiming in on this. From whom I'm sure I'll learn just as much as you do!

Careful not to start a debate here 😉 fixed embouchure v flexible etc......but I have found the same. It may be related to jaw movement when changing the oral cavity but I notice a slight tightening or loosening of the embouchure will change the pitch. Today I was deliberately bending notes to make a 'waaaah' sound. Not the scooping the a novice makes on starting a note without adequate articulation and breath control, but deliberate bending. Bit of fun!

........ But please take the time to also (positively) reflect on just how far you've come within such a short space of time!

Thanks. I'm sure more experienced and seasoned players might cringe at my playing but I'm having great fun and think I can't be too bad as I haven't been kicked out of the band yet.

I am still at a very novice level but progress is happening. Learning to play music on the saxophone has given me more pleasure, satisfaction, sense of achievement and improvement in overall well-being than I ever expected.

 

[Targa]

Was scored that way, for children with parents, that are trying to cut down on alcohol consumption.

Pondering the syntax, is that the children that are cutting down on the alcohol?

 

[GCinCT]

Pondering the syntax, is that the children that are cutting down on the alcohol?

I was wondering that myself.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

My Syntax is often like Semtex, and I married a grade school English teacher. 😭

More better?
Was scored that way, for children, whose parents, are trying to cut down on alcohol consumption.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Good to learn how E & G and other intervals, are pitched, in the key of C major, and when they are the tonic.
Anyone have a chart of how the intervals, are pitched, with relation to the tonic?

 

[Targa]

My Syntax is often like Semtex, and I married a grade school English teacher. 😭

More better?
Was scored that way, for children, whose parents, are trying to cut down on alcohol consumption.

More betterer.
Was scored that way for children; whose parents are trying to cut down on alcohol consumption, but have children.

 

[MikeMorrell]

@MikeMorrell Thank you for your positive comments.

I have noticed a recent improvement in overall tone by ensuring the the mouthpiece is in the correct position mpc further on neck and further out of my mouth! I use TE Tuner but more as a backup to my ears which I am trying to develop.

Also been doing lots of long tones and mpc work. I know that some think mpc exercises are pointless but for me it has rapidly improved my ability to manipulate the sound and optimise oral cavity and embouchure. It's far less forgiving than when on the horn. A month ago I could play 2-3 notes on the mpc, now I can do almost an octave.

Careful not to start a debate here 😉 fixed embouchure v flexible etc......but I have found the same. It may be related to jaw movement when changing the oral cavity but I notice a slight tightening or loosening of the embouchure will change the pitch. Today I was deliberately bending notes to make a 'waaaah' sound. Not the scooping the a novice makes on starting a note without adequate articulation and breath control, but deliberate bending. Bit of fun!


Thanks. I'm sure more experienced and seasoned players might cringe at my playing but I'm having great fun and think I can't be too bad as I haven't been kicked out of the band yet.

I am still at a very novice level but progress is happening. Learning to play music on the saxophone has given me more pleasure, satisfaction, sense of achievement and improvement in overall well-being than I ever expected.

I'm old enough have been a fan of he 'dead' 😉

 

[Jeanette]

Anyone have a chart of how the intervals, are pitched, with relation to the tonic?

Is that a gin and tonic, asking for a friend 🍸

 

[cappers]

Another gig at the beachfront cafe last night. The rain and strong cold wind must have put people off as we had an audience of just four, plus two staff and a French Bulldog!
One of the audience was a band member sitting-out due to a cold, another was an occasional member from a big band who came to support us, plus two friends of a band member.

We carried on regardless and was told afterwards that we were really tight and played well.
So it goes.....

 

[skeller047]

Wow nice band! What an experience you are having getting to play great tunes like this, especially in your first year. World tour next!

You might like to check out this version of the tune, which I refer to often as a master class in tenor saxophone playing.

View: https://youtu.be/r0vhqDCy9eQ

 

[MikeMorrell]

Wow, totally agree with @skeller047's comment!

What a great band to play in! And it's wonderful that you all get to play these 'jazz standards' so well together. I was impressed by:
a) the general 'musicality' (especially timing) of the band
b) after many (repeated) improvs that the whole band came in together right on time
c) the 'open' (and therefore inclusive) membership ^*

TBH, the 'musical level' is much higher than I had I imagined when you first mentioned that you were joining a 'community band'. I now understand why you initially had a steep learning curve 🙂! But you stuck with it and I'm 100% sure that you'll continue to develop -both musically and as a sax player - as this band develops!

Congrats!

Mike

^* One of the things I really love about this band is that it welcomes members who play any instrument reasonably well. So you have about 6 sax players, 3/4 guitarists and a flautist. And they sound great (and in synch) together! Very different (and IMHO much more enlightened and 'community-based') than most amateur Big Bands in NL. Which pretty much stick to the 'standard' Big Band

Wow, totally agree with @skeller047's comment!

What a great band to play in! And it's wonderful that you all get to play these 'jazz standards' so well together. I was impressed by:

a) the general 'musicality' (especially timing) of the band

b) after many (repeated) improvs that the whole band came in together right on time

c) the 'open' (and therefore inclusive) membership ^*


TBH, the 'musical level' is much higher than I had I imagined when you first mentioned that you were joining a 'community band'. I now understand why you initially had a steep learning curve 🙂! But you stuck with it and I'm 100% sure that you'll continue to develop -both musically and as a sax player - as this band develops!

Congrats!

Mike

^* One of the things I really love about this band is that it welcomes members who play any instrument reasonably well. So you have about 6 sax players, 3/4 guitarists and a flautist. And they sound great (and in synch) together! Very different (and IMHO more enlightened and 'community-based') than most amateur Big Bands in NL. Which pretty much stick to the 'standard' Big Band roles of 2 alto saxes, 2 tenors and a Bari. In addition to 4 trombones, 4 trumpets and a 'rhythm section' of 1 drummer, 1 bass player, 1 guitarist and 1 keyboard player.

Many (most?) amateur Big Bands in NL don't (sustainably) achieve this 'ideal occupation' of Traditional Big Band roles. So they continue to play with 'missing roles' in the sax, trombone, trumpet or rhythm sections. Yes, 'vacancies' are posted but it can many months - or years - to find suitable candidates.

For some reason, many 'amateur' (= community-based) Big Bands have never pivoted away from being a 'struggling/failing amateur Big Band' to becoming a thriving 'Community band'. With your permission, I'd like to publish a (personal) post on vide social media with a link to your video.

But ... the video is posted under the name @cappers_SJB., Although when I click on your name on Youtube, your 'channel' shows that you have 'no



Wow, totally agree with @skeller047's comment!

What a great band to play in! And it's wonderful that you all get to play these 'jazz standards' so well together. I was impressed by:

a) the general 'musicality' (especially timing) of the band

b) after many (repeated) improvs that the whole band came in together right on time

c) the 'open' (and therefore inclusive) membership ^*



TBH, the 'musical level' is much higher than I had I imagined when you first mentioned that you were joining a 'community band'. I now understand why you initially had a steep learning curve 🙂! But you stuck with it and I'm 100% sure that you'll continue to develop -both musically and as a sax player - as this band develops!



Congrats!



Mike



^* One of the things I really love about this band is that it welcomes members who play any instrument reasonably well. So you have about 6 sax players, 3/4 guitarists and a flautist. And they sound great (and in synch) together! Very different (and IMHO much more enlightened and 'community-based') than most amateur Big Bands in NL. Which pretty much stick to the 'standard' Big Band

Wow, totally agree with @skeller047's comment!

What a great band to play in! And it's wonderful that you all get to play these 'jazz standards' so well together. I was impressed by:
a) the general 'musicality' (especially timing) of the band
b) after many (repeated) improvs that the whole band came in together right on time
c) the 'open' (and therefore inclusive) membership,

 

[cappers]

Wow @MikeMorrell Thanks for liking it but you didn't have to repeat it three and a half times (computer glitch?)

I am very fortunate being in this band. All the positives you mentioned plus for me the sheer enjoyment.

Musically I think the band is strong, hence my panic when I first joined. But it has pushed me along and I think I'm making progress. Still dislike my sound

The band has also another alto sax, an occasional tenor sax, another two flutes, a cornet, clarinet, another guitarist, and second drummer. Too many for some venues.

Side note, the first guitar solo was by the band leader, an old pro who also plays the sax.

 

[ESJohn]

Great work, Cappers!
I'd like to be able to keep in time as well as you, especially with extended rests. We are always told to "play the silence" and that requires concentration and precision. There are times that I tend to fall off of the timing needed for me to start blowing again after a break in the midst of a tune being played. I need to spend much more time learning subdivision.

 

[lydian]

What a great opportunity for you. You have enough saxes there for a whole section. You could do some multi-part arrangements with some harmony someday if you had the charts. But this is a great start and wonderful environment for learning.

 

[cappers]

Great work, Cappers!
I'd like to be able to keep in time as well as you, especially with extended rests. We are always told to "play the silence" and that requires concentration and precision. There are times that I tend to fall off of the timing needed for me to start blowing again after a break in the midst of a tune being played. I need to spend much more time learning subdivision.

Thanks, my timing is not always spot on
Still get lost especially with 1: 2: repeats, DS del capo, coda. Know what they mean but in the heat of the moment I can lose my place.
You can see me checking the sheets at the end of the video, nearly missed the delayed final note!

 

[cappers]

What a great opportunity for you. You have enough saxes there for a whole section. You could do some multi-part arrangements with some harmony someday if you had the charts. But this is a great start and wonderful environment for learning.

There has been some discussion about trying trading fours/eights, if that's the correct term.
More to aid improv skills but if it works could fill a suitable 32 bar solo slot that way.

For a horn section Pick Up The Pieces would be great but way above my level - mostly sixteenths in the higher register, 108 or 216 bpm

 

[GCinCT]

There has been some discussion about trying trading fours/eights, if that's the correct term.
More to aid improv skills but if it works could fill a suitable 32 bar solo slot that way.

For a horn section Pick Up The Pieces would be great but way above my level - mostly sixteenths in the higher register, 108 or 216 bpm

Pick Up the Pieces is a blast to play. We did it in my big band a couple of years ago. But, you're right. It is challenging.

 

[lydian]

There has been some discussion about trying trading fours/eights, if that's the correct term.
More to aid improv skills but if it works could fill a suitable 32 bar solo slot that way.

For a horn section Pick Up The Pieces would be great but way above my level - mostly sixteenths in the higher register, 108 or 216 bpm

Nothing that hard. Just harmonize the melody, same rhythms for everybody. I see 3 altos, 3 tenors and flute, right? I'll put together an example in the next few weeks and send it. I wouldn't expect you or the band leader to write such an arrangement, but you could certainly buy some like that in the future. A sax section playing in harmony is a wonderful experience.

Yes, trading twos/fours/eights... is correct and a great way to learn how to keep track of the form and do some call and response. A long held jazz tradition and a lot of fun.