Playing the saxophone Thin high notes

[Pete Effamy]

Will work on them long tones. Do you have a specific exercise? Blowing just long tones can be failry easy to wander off for me

This is precisely what is difficult in learning to play an instrument well, the day-to-day grind of monotony and snail-pace improvement.

Long Tones

Firstly, practice them at a decent volume (but not really loud and blowing hard) and try to make the note the same from beginning to end - full and controlled with no "wandering" (movement in tuning). Start on low G or something nice and easy. When you are happy with this note move onto another - maybe up to B or C. Try to match the sound of the first note. They should all sound the same as much as possible, just higher or lower.

In my (and many others) opinion, there is nothing else that will improve your playing as nearly as quickly as some detailed work on long notes. Even with on 5 mins per day, you should see a vast improvement over two-three weeks.

You can practice a few things at once with long notes too - attack, breath control, embouchure development, tongue position/voicing, dynamics, hearing intervals.

 

[RienButter]

Thanx @Pete Effamy. I will put this in my exercise starting today

Speaking of tongue position, Does your tongue postition change when your playing towards the higher register? If yes, what happens in your mouth?

 

[Pete Effamy]

Thanx @Pete Effamy. I will put this in my exercise starting today

Speaking of tongue position, Does your tongue postition change when your playing towards the higher register? If yes, what happens in your mouth?

I expect some might explain this better but off a quick search this video came up.
It has been talked about many times before on this forum too, and @Pete Thomas might we’ll have written one of his Concise, detailed articles that covers all bases .

View: https://youtu.be/CZ7_zK2dssY

 

[RienButter]

Thanx! will watch this later

 

[Pete Thomas]

Speaking of tongue position, Does your tongue postition change when your playing towards the higher register? If yes, what happens in your mouth?

I expect some might explain this better but off a quick search this video came up.
It has been talked about many times before on this forum too, and @Pete Thomas might we’ll have written one of his Concise, detailed articles that covers all bases .

To be honest, I've heard people talk about tongue position and vowel shapes etc. and I don't really get it. I just keep my tongue out of the way unless I'm tonguing, in which case it is as close as possible to tip of tongue on tip of reed.

That's just me though, I'm aware many people disagree but I'm probably at a stage where I think that has been fine for me all through my career, I'm not going to change now.

 

[Mark Hancock]

I'm not really qualified to give advice, but my experience, having come back to the saxophone after a several years break, is that daily long tone practice is essential. I also struggle with the higher notes, but I guess part of the reason is simply that I didn't practice those notes enough. I tended to avoid them in playing and spent little time practicing them because they can sound pretty bad. But that's exactly the reason to spend more time practicing them! I try to focus on those difficult notes in my long tone exercises more now. No one really wants to listen to that, but it's the only way to improve I guess!

 

[RienButter]

Thanx everyone!! So long tones should be the foremost excersise you all reccomend?

Man, when I listen to Melissa Aldana her sound.. Pfff, I wish I would have all that fullness and body in my higher tones too.
Saw her live last month. When she plays the altissimo range she literally play's from out of her toes.

 

[Pete Effamy]

To be honest, I've heard people talk about tongue position and vowel shapes etc. and I don't really get it. I just keep my tongue out of the way unless I'm tonguing, in which case it is as close as possible to tip of tongue on tip of reed.

That's just me though, I'm aware many people disagree but I'm probably at a stage where I think that has been fine for me all through my career, I'm not going to change now.

There is certainly more ways to skin a cat. I'm closer to what you say here Pete and the way that you play with regard to tongue position but I've heard the guys that have truly ridiculous technique talk of this so often that if I had my time again...

 

[GCinCT]

So long tones should be the foremost excersise you all reccomend?

I realize I am repeating what others have already said, but this does bear repeating. Long tones are essential. I read somewhere that Sonny Rollins once said if he could only do one exercise on the saxophone for the rest of his life, it would be long tones.

Many players find them monotonous and it can take quite a bit of discipline to stick to them. I try to take them as meditative. I stand facing a corner of the room so my sound bounces back to my ears. I close my eyes and really focus on the tone. I try to hear the core and the overtones. I also play with a drone to train my ears to hear when I'm in tune. You don't have to use the drone to start out, but eventually, when you become more comfortable with them, you should try it. It's fun to hear your tone blend with the drone.

Record yourself from time to time as well. When you start to hear improvement, that will give you the best motivation to continue your long tone practice.

 

[RienButter]

I realize I am repeating what others have already said, but this does bear repeating. Long tones are essential. I read somewhere that Sonny Rollins once said if he could only do one exercise on the saxophone for the rest of his life, it would be long tones.

Many players find them monotonous and it can take quite a bit of discipline to stick to them. I try to take them as meditative. I stand facing a corner of the room so my sound bounces back to my ears. I close my eyes and really focus on the tone. I try to hear the core and the overtones. I also play with a drone to train my ears to hear when I'm in tune. You don't have to use the drone to start out, but eventually, when you become more comfortable with them, you should try it. It's fun to hear your tone blend with the drone.

Record yourself from time to time as well. When you start to hear improvement, that will give you the best motivation to continue your long tone practice.

Thanks for this buddy! Now I can't wait to start it tonight.

My teacher will bring a mouthpiece with a bit smaller tip (d'addario selected jazz D6M) to try out. Curious to see/feel how I respond to it

 

[Pete Effamy]

My teacher will bring a mouthpiece with a bit smaller tip (d'addario selected jazz D6M) to try out. Curious to see/feel how I respond to it

Definitely worth a try - will he let you have it for a week?

 

[Admitone]

My teacher will bring a mouthpiece with a bit smaller tip (d'addario selected jazz D6M) to try out. Curious to see/feel how I respond to it

When I started back playing after many years, I copied the mpc/reed setup (Morgan 5M, Rico Reserve 2.5) of a very good player. It wasn't working very well for me, and the mpc cost and number variables seemed out of reach, so I tried an inexpensive shotgun approach. I already had a Yamaha 4C, so I added a 3C, 5C, 6C, along with a Rico M7 and M9 (all for about $125). I also bought a wide selection of reeds (Rico 3 packs) from 1.5 to 3.5.

Next was mix and match. There are a great number of possible combinations, so it took quite a while, but I found a pair that works for me at least for now.

Clearly, there are a great number of other considerations in choosing a mpc/reed, but at least I have a workable tip opening and reed strength as a baseline. And I can also test how a different combination affects low/high notes.

Another variable I have found useful and which is completely free is to move the reed and/or the ligature up or down very slightly on the mpc. Reed up to stiffen for better highs, reed down to soften for better lows. More on this: Saxophone Reed Placement - Steven Mauk

 

[GCinCT]

Another variable I have found useful and which is completely free is to move the reed and/or the ligature up or down very slightly on the mpc.

I find this extremely helpful too. Sometimes, just the slightest adjustment makes it so much easier to play and brings out my very best tone.

 

[Mark Hancock]

When I started back playing after many years, I copied the mpc/reed setup (Morgan 5M, Rico Reserve 2.5) of a very good player. It wasn't working very well for me, and the mpc cost and number variables seemed out of reach, so I tried an inexpensive shotgun approach. I already had a Yamaha 4C, so I added a 3C, 5C, 6C, along with a Rico M7 and M9 (all for about $125). I also bought a wide selection of reeds (Rico 3 packs) from 1.5 to 3.5.

Next was mix and match. There are a great number of possible combinations, so it took quite a while, but I found a pair that works for me at least for now.

Clearly, there are a great number of other considerations in choosing a mpc/reed, but at least I have a workable tip opening and reed strength as a baseline. And I can also test how a different combination affects low/high notes.

Another variable I have found useful and which is completely free is to move the reed and/or the ligature up or down very slightly on the mpc. Reed up to stiffen for better highs, reed down to soften for better lows. More on this: Saxophone Reed Placement - Steven Mauk

That could explain why I sometimes have "good tone days" and "bad tone days"... maybe I need to pay more attantion to the precise reed/ligature set up....

 

[RienButter]

Definitely worth a try - will he let you have it for a week?

Two weeks even! I have quite the amount of different reeds so I can try some stuff out.

Thanx everyone for all the tips. The reed placement is definetly a thing I could play more with.
Will check the link!

 

[Jazzaferri]

@RienButter ...pick a note you want to work on. Use some external pitch reference (piano app or??) listen carefully to that note in your minds eye. Take a deep breath, think about the pitch of that note and start softly and increase the volume over the entire breath Listen to the pitch reference again, take another breath and this time start as loud as you can and go down to pp by the end of the breath.

Work on tone and maintaining intonation. Its almost like meditating.

Download a copy of Top Tones for SAxophones by Sigurd RAscher practice these

Youwill be amazed at the difference in your sound after a few months of steady practice

 

[RienButter]

@RienButter ...pick a note you want to work on. Use some external pitch reference (piano app or??) listen carefully to that note in your minds eye. Take a deep breath, think about the pitch of that note and start softly and increase the volume over the entire breath Listen to the pitch reference again, take another breath and this time start as loud as you can and go down to pp by the end of the breath.

Work on tone and maintaining intonation. Its almost like meditating.

Download a copy of Top Tones for SAxophones by Sigurd RAscher practice these

Youwill be amazed at the difference in your sound after a few months of steady practice

I have this copy already I think.
Bought and downloaded so much books and stuff that I have a shelf full of it. Barely opened one.

Thanx for the advice! I will open this book tonight

 

[JayeNM]

- we're happy to put masses of air through the horn when we make low notes, but the higher we go the temptation is to act like we're blowing this tiny little thing with a tiny straw-like tube. Not good for a full sound.
Do you practice overtone matching?

I think much of the problem with 'thin' high notes is about how we imagine what we are doing - what do you think?

A buddy of mine (alto player) had a teacher who once demonstrated something very interesting to him:

He stood behind his student and instructed student to just blow into the horn 'normally', and allow him (teacher) to finger the notes up and down the registers. All his student was supposed to do was keep a steady, consistent airflow and embouchure. As the teacher fingered the notes up and down, changing octaves, all the notes spoke cleanly and quite well, intonation-wise.

Thus....the student (player) had been disconnected from his association of changing his embochure and wind flow according to the different keys he happened to be pressing.

I always thought that a cool demonstration.

 

[Pete Effamy]

A buddy of mine (alto player) had a teacher who once demonstrated something very interesting to him:

He stood behind his student and instructed student to just blow into the horn 'normally', and allow him (teacher) to finger the notes up and down the registers. All his student was supposed to do was keep a steady, consistent airflow and embouchure. As the teacher fingered the notes up and down, changing octaves, all the notes spoke cleanly and quite well, intonation-wise.

Thus....the student (player) had been disconnected from his association of changing his embochure and wind flow according to the different keys he happened to be pressing.

I always thought that a cool demonstration.

I had it done to me as a clarinet student (you can turn the mouthpiece negating the necessity to hug the student) and have used it on occasion as a teacher - it’s a great party trick and shows that the embouchure often moves subconsciously.

 

[jbtsax]

I have a few additional thoughts after my previous post in this thread:

• The more work that is done by the airstream, the less work is required of the embouchure
• Blow the pitch of the note on your airstream (like an airy sounding whistle) as you play the note
• All of the notes in the normal range of the saxophone use the same embouchure

I have uploaded an exercise I used with my students to develop using the same embouchure pressure throughout the range of the saxophone to keep the upper register from sounding thin and sharp by "biting".