Soprano saxs for travelling

visionari1 · May 22, 2006

Hi everyone.
I'm in the market for buying a Soprano to travel with, never having played one (I have a beautifull old Conn alto, which I have travelled with in the past & am looking for something smaller and always loved the sound of Sopranos) Budget wise I like the older saxes, although have been told to stay away from the oldies & to go for an older Yamaha or Yanagasawa. I had a good look at a King Vintage Soprano on Ebay which recently sold for $455 US (without a mouthpeice and in good condition but in need of some maintenace) Looked great, but I want one that sounds great!
Any difference in sound between Straight and curved Soprano's? I perfer and want that pure slightly raspy sound, although I suppose this also comes from the reed mouthpeice combination & what's in your head, ie bones & embrouchure etc. I have been using the Hahn reeds #2, which I find brilliant and super easy care, using the same one for 6 years now!!!.
I have a couple of local repair men, keeping an eye out for me.

Any thoughts on these matters gratefully received 🙂
Visionari1

Rogerb · May 22, 2006

What's your budget, Visionari1?

If Hanson's sops are anywhere near as good as their other saxes (and clarinets), then you might do worse than to try one.
(Just realised you are on t'other side of the world from Hanson, but they do deliver free!!)

Bobby G · May 22, 2006

From what I've heard, you get that sound from a straight soprano. A curved one apparently sounds more sax-like, although as you say it's going to be down to mpc and reeds. I've never played soprano, but I'd love a curved one myself.

I played once with a soprano player who was using a curved Yanigisawa and it sounded lovely, not too piercing but projecting well. I think the Yani's are quite pricey but they have a good reputation.

visionari1 · May 23, 2006

Thanks for the replies Bob & Rogerb
My budget is under $2000 nz, rough idea in UK money would be one about 600 pounds no idea of in euro and about $1000US.
I kind of like the repair man option, as I get to play before I buy, which is really important to me.
The jayeaston.com site that was mentioned on the Breakfast room does actually have a downloadable comparison of straight and curved, playing the same tune, not allot of difference, however I prefer the Straight sound.
I heard a classical player play the top of the range (over $7000NZ) Yanagasawa last weekend in our local catherdral, wow it has some bite and sweetness.
More gears than a Mac truck, although allot of it must be coming from the player also. 🙂 😉
Visionar1

Rogerb · May 24, 2006

Well, for that money, I really think you could do worse than contact Alastair Hanson, at
[email protected]
http://www.saxophonesdirect.com/
for a chat.

For your budget you could have an SS-5 Advanced, and change, although Alastair sometimes has a 'special deal' up his sleeve 🙂

There are many Hanson fans in this forum; I'm sure we're not *all* deluded 😛

visionari1 · May 24, 2006

Hello RogerB
Ta for the info , yes I had a look at Hanson Saxes, they certainly look fine & the price is right, although going by some of the comments from customers/owners they seem to be for beginners or schoolkids.
The proof of any pudding in my book is the eating, having read some of the other posts, where one can go into a large saxophone dealer/shop and have a blow at a range of Saxes is the ideal.
I'd like to hear from other Hanson players, are they happy with their horns. What mouthpieces and reeds combinations work for them?
Tell me about the feelings you get while playing, easy to blow? resonance! fluency with the keys! I am lucky that my first Sax was a naked lady Conn (alto 1935 model)which I still have and will never part with & think this has been a huge factor in continuing to practise & play.
I am artist furniture maker by occupation and I guess what we are talking about is that difference from the hand plane one sees say in the school woodwork room or the basic Stanley plane from the local tool shop, (which aren't really ready for proper use)---or the special high class precision ultra sharp top of the line hand plane that is a joy to use and delivers the goods.( the sort of tool that even a blind man would instantly enjoy)
I see on the internet the Selman brand of saxophones from USA, look sexy, cheap enough, how do they play???
I am in no hurry to start playing soprano.
Gathering info & practising is #1 prioirity at the moment!
saxophonly yours
visionari1 🙂 😉

Bobby G · May 26, 2006

Just a side question before the Hansonists start praising their horns - any opinions on Artemis sops, particularly the curved one? I know it's 'only' a student sax, but an ex-rental one is on offer locally and the price is right for me as an instrument to get the feel of playing a soprano if I want it...

Cheers, Bob

Rogerb · May 26, 2006

"..I had a look at Hanson Saxes, they certainly look fine & the price is right, although going by some of the comments from customers/owners they seem to be for beginners or schoolkids. "

Under which of these categories would you put one Pete Thomas, an apparently well-pleased Hanson owner ? 😉

Can't say 'how they play', as I'm not good enough to judge (one of those 'beginners'!) and have only blown one other sax, a very long time ago.

I understand completely your desire to find 'the best tool for the job', as I'm the same, but one must be realistic about the budget...

Probably a coupla reasons for 'beginners or schoolkids' using Hansons are that they do offer such good VFM, and we probably cannot *afford* to be 'sax snobs' who don't believe anything so inexpensive could *possibly* be good enough (so it's the big 4 or nothing) >:)

(Nothing personal intended against anyone on *this* forum 🙂 )

Pete, apparently, is more open-minded than them.

visionari1 · May 27, 2006

Hi there Rogerb
Thanks for the repy.
I guess I boobed there, had no idea Pete Thomas plays a Hanson, I'm certainly into value for money. It's like when I went into a Sax shop in Germany and tried a range of different mouthpiece and reeds combinations for a couple of hours and none were (I felt) better that what I had. One doesn't know what your getting untill that first blow, I guess what I'm really saying is Gee If I buy a Hanson online (sight and sound unseen or heard) and then get it shipped all the way to NZ & it don't feel or sound right, I'm not a happy camper! I know they have return policy, best to ask allot & make the right decision first time!

Sorry if I came across as coming down on School kids and beginners, both of which Iv'e been and hope to continue to be in the future. Don't we all have so much to learn from everyone!
Sax snobs, I've yet to meet one, either in person or on this forum.

Cheers
Visionari1 :erm:

rs2sensen · May 27, 2006

I only had a chance to scan the thread above, so I have no idea if I am just reiterating other posts, giving new information, or contradicting anyone else.

I don't notice a huge difference between curved and straight sopranos. Although some believe that curved sops have a "saxier" sound, it has been my personal experience that the difference between a straight and curved soprano is no greater than the difference between different models of the same type of horn. It's my opinion that you should get the opportunity to play both curved and straight horns, determine which body style you like the most as far as comfort, playability, etc. and then begin investigating from there.

Vintage Horn vs. New Horn...This is a tough one to answer. New horns have the advantages of typically better intonation, consistent build quality, and smooth actions. Vintage horns may have intonation issues on certain notes, as well as numerous other quirks. However, they also often have that "vintage" sound, and they certainly have a history to them.

A few years ago I made the mistake of buying a low-end soprano. I decided I'd mess around with it for a year, and if I liked sop I'd upgrade. It has certainly been a blast messing around with soprano, but I have a strong dislike of this horn. (a Buescher BU3, not really made by Buescher). The support bars are weak, and I have continuous problems with the octave key. I will give it some credit though. The action is smooth, the low range of the horn is very strong, and the intonation is spot on. I'm also on the search for a new soprano, and intend to purchase vintage. In my price range, I expect that I'll be able to get a higher quality instrument than if I were to buy new. With your price range, I think you could safely go either way.

On a side note, sops are great for traveling. My arms typically get rather tired when going through airports with even an alto. Plus, my case doesn't fit well in the overhead compartments. The soprano is the opposite. It's light, and fits perfectly. I love traveling, and it's always fun to come across other musicians.

For example, a few months ago I came across a trumpet player who asked me what I was carrying:
"Trumpet?"
"Nope, alto sax."
"Sweet stuff man, ya gig much?"
"A bit, wish I could do more."
"Don't we all!"

Or often I get nods from people, smiles, that kind of thing. Once, when there were several major delays at an airport, one of the staff members asked me if I'd be willing to play to distract the annoyed passengers waiting outside the gate.

Rogerb · May 27, 2006

At 02:36:40 AM 27/05/06, visionari1 wrote:
Hi there Rogerb
Thanks for the repy.
I guess I boobed there, had no idea Pete Thomas plays a Hanson, I'm certainly into value for money. It's like when I went into a Sax shop in Germany and tried a range of different mouthpiece and reeds combinations for a couple of hours and none were (I felt) better that what I had. One doesn't know what your getting untill that first blow, I guess what I'm really saying is Gee If I buy a Hanson online (sight and sound unseen or heard) and then get it shipped all the way to NZ & it don't feel or sound right, I'm not a happy camper! I know they have return policy, best to ask allot & make the right decision first time!

Sorry if I came across as coming down on School kids and beginners, both of which Iv'e been and hope to continue to be in the future. Don't we all have so much to learn from everyone!
Sax snobs, I've yet to meet one, either in person or on this forum.

Cheers
Visionari1 :erm:

Having lived in NZ for a while, I understand your view about getting something 'sound unblown' (to coin a phrase!) from so far away.

I don't think anyone could have taken offence at your original post, but I just guessed you might be unaware of Pete's ownership.

I suggest you read the thread 'Hanson Saxes ?' or just do a Search on the word Hanson to see what Pete & others say about them.

There's no substitute for actually blowing 'em, but Ken and I both bought 'em 'on trust' and I don't think he is disappointed, and I certainly am not.

Good luck with whatever you get 🙂
There are quite a few people out there who think that their own personal choice is The Only True Sound >:)

(I don't)

griff136 · May 27, 2006

Wise words from rs2sensen.

On most curved sops because of their size and the fact that they are curved I find the bottom stack and to a lesser degree the left hand pinky table very close to the bell almost as if you are in some cases putting your hand "inside" the machinery so to speak. I dont think this is necessarily a bad thing, just something that feels strange to me. I did have a Rampone & Cazzani deluxe curved sop that played like a dream, it was very well crafted and had a great tone but I must admit I preferred the straight sops. In the end I got a pre war Buescher one piece with tipped bell and bent crook, which although not exactly a straight sax isnt s curved one either!

I suppose really its all again ,like mouthpieces, down to personal preference.

Now as for vintage over modern, Hanson Vs any other model - I would first decide what I wanted the sop for primarily. If it was basically to take on holiday to "keep your lip in" and the odd occasional play back home as a doubling instrument then in my view a Hanson, Antigua, Jupiter or entry level Yamaha would be more than adequate.

Bobby G · May 27, 2006

My situation exactly, Griff; keeping the lip in on hol, and not scaring the neighbours with a honking tenor are 2 considerations. Also, as I'm from the 'cheap & cheerful' school of instrument owning (you should see my guitars, but I love them and they work for me), I'm giving t is Artemis some serious thought. Plus, it's curved and really cute!!

Paul_Dennis · May 27, 2006

Hi there everyone. This is an interesting discussion and all the more so because I have just bought myself a Hanson ST-8 tenor. It's only just arrived so I'm still forming an opinion about it. More on that later in this post. I also have a student model soprano. I don't play it very often but have had some fun with it.

It's a straight Elkhart 300 series instrument, distributed by Vincent Bach. I guess it is Taiwanese made but that is no bad thing. Vincent Bach are a well respected company and manufacture superb trumpets and other brass instruments. The soprano cost ?280.00 new and has an excellent mechanism, with robust keys, an exceptional set of left hand table keys and smooth rollers. Intonation is nigh on perfect with a very strong low end. At the cheaper end of the range it doesn't have a detachable neck, neither does it have a slightly curved neck so for some playing posture might be an issue.

Tone was not great. However, a few weeks ago I had the opportunity of using a Yanigasawa soprano mouthpiece on the instrument. Boy did it improve in tonal quality. It fairly sung, with sweet notes in the upper register and a delicioulsly smooth low register.

I guess the moral is that there are some very good instruments out there at bargain prices...but it is caveat emptor! Also be prepared to test with a range of mouthpieces.

I can't say much about the Artemis range of soprano saxes. I believe that they are made to a Trevor James design and are marketed by TJ instruments. That's certainly the case with their alto and tenor models. My first sax was a TJ artemis alto. I didn't get on with it. It was stuffy and difficult below low D. That could largely be lack of experience on my part but on moving onto a Keilwerth EXII I noticed a huge difference. I'm told by my sax repair man that the newer models are a significant improvement over those of 10 or more years ago.

Now back to the Hanson tenor. My first playing impression is the full, rich tone across all the registers and particulalry low down. The horn is very free blowing and notes sing out instantly without hesitation. Intonation seems good too. I had the chance to compare it with a Yanigasawa last night (can't remember the model number but is rose brass). The Hanson outshines it in every way with respect to playability and tonal quality, though I adit this is very much a personal thing. I'm impressed. I'm also impressed by the quality of the construction which is every bit as good as that of the Yanigasawa. The low C, B and Bb cups are all double braced and rock steady. The bridge supporting the lower stack rods and palm keys is substantial and has extra bracing. You'd have to be a gorilla to bend it! However, I have one or two minor issues with the key work. The left hand table keys are poorly put together, too widely spaced and definitely needs tweaking, the rollers are also poor quality plastic and don't move smoothly (they could well bed in), the high E left hand palm key is very low for my tastes (easily corrected and not a quality issue). I'd also prefer pearls on the G# key (yes I know I'm picky but in the picture on the web site these keys have pearls on them!)

All in I'm very happy and as soon as I have had some practice with it will post some sound files so you can all hear what it sounds like. This is a quality instrument and at less than ?1000 represents amazing value for money. Another very happy Hanson customer! Oh just one thing..I ordered the vintage finish which, now I have the instrument, is not to my taste. I rang Hanson's and told them so. Their customer service is the best I have ever come across in any field not just music. It's not a problem...they say play the sax and enjoy it...they'll happily exchange it for another finish when I'm ready next week.

visionari1 · May 27, 2006

Kia ora Guys,RogerB, bob,rs2sensen, griff136, Paul Dennis & Ken.
Thanks for all the replies.
This will take some time to digest, all great advice and material to ponder on while I practise.
The breakfast Room is my first forum type experience, isn't it fantastic.

in reply to rs2sensen

"sops are great for traveling. My arms typically get rather tired when going through airports with even an alto. Plus, my case doesn't fit well in the overhead compartments. The soprano is the opposite. It's light, and fits perfectly. I love traveling, and it's always fun to come across other musicians"

quite a few years ago I travelled from LA to London I was back packing with my beloved (my Naked lady Conn in a soft case) through America. I travel so light I had room inside the backpack and therefore put her in.
I got too my friends in London, went to play the sax and couldn't get a single note out of her! Luckily I had travel insurance (extra lucky they don't insure against stupidity) and had it repaired in London costing 400GB pounds. Now I have ahard case and also carry her onto the plane.

Also your other comment about

"Once, when there were several major delays at an airport, one of the staff members asked me if I'd be willing to play to distract the annoyed passengers waiting outside the gate."

Airports are great places to have a relaxing blow before sitting at 18,000 feet for a long while.
I've played outside at Tokyo airport, inside the buildings at various transit lounges, also the moving walkways are great, occasionaly I got the move on, but if you pick you spot and even ask, its usually allowed & enjoyed.
In 2004 I played outside at LAX while the US Army was unloading their gear, I started playing America the beautful, and got the thumbs up sign from the troops. I actually got quite emotional about it, Strange for an expatriate Scot now resident Kiwi.

and again
"For example, a few months ago I came across a trumpet player who asked me what I was carrying:
"Trumpet?"
"Nope, alto sax."
"Sweet stuff man, ya gig much?"
"A bit, wish I could do more."
"Don't we all!"

This is my dream, & it will come true, to meet fellow musicians and say "ya wantta Jam, OK lets go!"

Paradise awaites

Meanwhile Hanson research continues!

Many thanks fellow posters.
Praise the lord & pass the ammunition
😉 😉 😉

Bobby G · May 27, 2006

Well, I took the plunge - the Artemis is mine! Complete with the ubiquitous Yam 4c mpc and Rico Royal 2 reeds, all in its own tiny box. I can get sounds I like, it feels good, and after a bit of embouchure adjusting the intonation is great. Also, the price was good, it's an ex-rental (only 3 months old I was told) so everything works ok and seems to be bedded in nicely, and it's in good condition too.

I had a chance to play it against a straight sop, but I prefer the curved one, it just seems to sit better with my natural stance (and is great to play sitting down) and I like the way the sound seems to come straight back at you. I've played it for a couple of hours and am really enjoying it!

There is one slight drawback with a curved soprano, however - it's a bit disconcerting that you can see your reflection inside the bell! Other than that, I'd recommend a curved over a straight soprano.

Cheers, Bob

p.s. Visionari1, I am in awe of your willingness to 'entertain the troops', I haven't quite got the bottle to whip out my horn in the street just yet, much as I'd love to. So far my public playing has been restricted to jam sessions & workshops, but one day....

Bobby G · May 27, 2006

Umm... different, Ken, I'd say - after a while favouring tenor, I'd been back mainly on the alto for a week or so (mostly due to the wettest drought since records began) as I can't sit in the car and play tenor. I love playing both, and I've posted about the differences between alto and tenor before, but soprano is different again - I'd say it's further away, technically, to play than alto or tenor i.e. the similarities between alto and tenor are more marked, if that makes sense. A guitar analogy might be the differences between 6-string, 12-string and nylon-string guitars, I suppose.

Someone somewhere posted a comment about the closeness of the fingers to the bell as the touchpieces are close to each other, fortunately I have fairly small hands, unlike Harmonix's pork-sausage-fingers, so this is not a problem for me.

Getting it to play in tune takes a bit of getting used to, but is ok once you get there; this may be in part due to it being an 'entry-level' sax, although as has been pointed out elsewhere 'entry level' is better than it used to be, and also a function of tuning issues inherent in a small sax where compromises in design become more apparent. Also, considering how small the mouthpiece is, it's quite easy to get a good, consistent sound. I'm going for a 'little sax' sound, although it's possible to get that more ethereal, oboey, almost Oriental sound too.

I can see this being my horn of choice when I have a spare 10 minutes blowing time, although I probably wouldn't take it out in public - usually there are 3 or 4 tenor players to contend with and I have enough trouble keeping up on alto; this could be down to my inexpertise in projecting, though.

All in all, soprano is another facet or discipline (me, disciplined?!) in the wonderful world of sax-playing, and a joy at that. I'd recommend it wholeheartedly.

Now, there's a bari going cheap on ebay somewhere....!

Bobby G · May 27, 2006

Maybe it's my ears then, but it sounds ok to me - as I say, it took a bit of getting used to, and anyway I like bending notes. Even the great Sinatra was known to have wobbly pitch at times (he often hits a note slightly flat then comes up to pitch).

Alternatively, my getting to grips with wayward intonation on the soprano could just be down to my enormous natural ability and talent. Damn, I wish I could work these smileys.

I'd say if you have a fancy for a soprano, at least have a go on one.

Bobby G · May 27, 2006

NoI've also heard it can be a bugger to get sops to play in tune - so, a sopranino, is that like an octave above a alto. I would think the altissimo is only audible to dogs...