Shellac or Hot Glue for pads?

jbtsax

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My sax tech can't stand shellac!

He has just replaced the G# pad on my 2 year old alto because he couldn't get it to seal properly because of the shellac that was used in manufacture.
I have no idea what he does use, but I know he has mentioned his dislike of shellac before.
It is not uncommon for manufacturers to use too little shellac on the backs of pads. It is probably a cost thing. The shellac wasn't the problem, it was there was not enough shellac to reposition or "float" the pad. Most techs have their own likes and dislikes, but I think some mistake poor installation technique with the quality of the adhesive. They are really two different things.
 

scotsman

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I bought the Winnenden tenor which was overhauled by Matt Stohrer some years ago .
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8up9ErgvFk
. It had been in Texas for a while and the pads had moved.. Probably because of the heat.. However, being a tech I reseated them and found that some of the pads were seated with hot glue.. I understand Matts preference is for Shellac, which I use, as it gives me the time to float and adjust the pads. exspecially on Conns and Kohlerts. purely a personal preference of course.. Check out the Open Source Sax Project on his website. Regards
 

JayeNM

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I agree that it isn't so much the material behind the pad as how adept the particular tech is at using it.

I think of techs I know, it goes around 60-40 for shellac. Every tech has their reasons, whether these reasons are fact-based or more subjective, who knows ? But if a good tech has had success with one or other, and their customers report good results, then that should be all one needs to know.

(FWIW I use shellac as I find it more workable ,and feel it creates a more consistent float.)

Personally, if I were making a suggestion to someone who is gonna take a shot at doing some repadding for the first time....I would be inclined to suggest stick shellac...
 
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DavidUK

DavidUK

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From Dawkes today, following a phone cal with the bad news on my pads:

"As mentioned, the ETA for the GSL0900 and GSP1800 is end of November 2018 and the ETA for GSP4000 is end of January 2019 - of course, all popular sizes so we constantly have them on order given they can take 4-8 months to arrive as they are hand made."

Hey, what!? FOUR months for pads to arrive?

These would be quicker: Professional Set of 25pcs Alto Saxophone Woodwind Leather Pads, Sax Accessory | eBay :confused2:
 

Colin the Bear

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I've had a few sets off ebay. The sets don't always have the sizes you need. I bought a sop set because it had the sizes I needed for alto. They seem reasonable quality and stand up to the rigours of busking and giging. Some times a set is cheaper than a single pad from dawkes:rolleyes:
 

Stephen Howard

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It is not uncommon for manufacturers to use too little shellac on the backs of pads. It is probably a cost thing. The shellac wasn't the problem, it was there was not enough shellac to reposition or "float" the pad. Most techs have their own likes and dislikes, but I think some mistake poor installation technique with the quality of the adhesive. They are really two different things.
Yep, it a cost thing - but not in terms of how much shellac (or any other kind of glue) is use. It's all about the time and skill it takes to properly seat a pad. Modern manufacturing relies on getting the cup angles consistent and then using the appropriate thickness of pad...and then compression seating them. Too much glue, or even very much at all, and it'd ooze out of the keycups.
 

jbtsax

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Yep, it a cost thing - but not in terms of how much shellac (or any other kind of glue) is use. It's all about the time and skill it takes to properly seat a pad. Modern manufacturing relies on getting the cup angles consistent and then using the appropriate thickness of pad...and then compression seating them. Too much glue, or even very much at all, and it'd ooze out of the keycups.
Good point. I have seen a pattern in which the backs of the pads are "light" right from the factory. My "theory" is that the pads are seated using the method you describe, and since the front of the key cup moves father than the back there is a deeper impression made at the front when it appears the pad is perfectly seated. Then, over time, the deeper indentation relaxes a bit pushing the pad up a bit causing the back to be light. I am interested to know what you think.
 

Stephen Howard

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Good point. I have seen a pattern in which the backs of the pads are "light" right from the factory. My "theory" is that the pads are seated using the method you describe, and since the front of the key cup moves father than the back there is a deeper impression made at the front when it appears the pad is perfectly seated. Then, over time, the deeper indentation relaxes a bit pushing the pad up a bit causing the back to be light. I am interested to know what you think.
It seems to vary - I see quite a lot that are back heavy, so I guess it's down to how they clamp the pads and how much pressure is used.
It also depends on how much residual 'spring' there is left in the keywork.
One thing's certain though, they can't be micro-adjusting the pads...there simply isn't enough glue on them.
 

Colin the Bear

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They do individual ones, and I just need 5.
Some pads have a shorter life than others depending on position. The bottom end pads on my Bari are original and 30 years old. The spit valve has needed changing several times in the past few years. I only had a clarinet pad last time I did it.

The postage for singles may be more than a complete set off ebay with the sizes you need.
 

Stephen Howard

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Luxiumei? Never 'eard of 'em.

That said, I've seen and used some Chinese pads that were really rather good. Good (thick) leather, decent felt, stout backing...and as level as anything I've seen from Pisoni.
I've trialled them on repair jobs and been extremely impressed with their performance.
I'd be interested to see some further development by the Chinese with regard to pads/reeds etc...I think we're being right royally stung with what's on offer from the traditional suppliers these days.
 

griff136

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DavidUK

DavidUK

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Yes, was looking earlier. Two questions... plastic resonator sizes.. order the diameter of the reso not the pad?
Windplus' MyPads come with metal riveted reso, so do I have to drill this out to clip in the plastic one? Ta.
 
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