Backing Tracks Recording with backing track and tuner

wooster

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Hi all,

I'm not really playing in tune and I'd like to manage it if possible 😳😀

I had an idea of recording me playing along with a backing track and measuring just how awful I was with a tuner. What is the best way to achieve this? If I use a mic and record me playing along I just get the whole track in a general mist-mash and I can't determine where my notes actually are flat or sharp etc. Any suggestions?

Thank you all
 
Ooh, you're going to get people telling you to use your ears not a tuner. :rofl:

There is a nice, easy solution for this. Get a copy of REAPER | Audio Production Without Limits

Stick your backing track in Reaper and record yourself playing as you would using any other software.

Now the cool bit; add ReaTune (it's an FX that comes free with Reaper) to the channel you recorded to. Job done. You can now see exactly how accurate your intonation is.
 
I have really rubbish ears... Not only that but am learning the reed flute, which is really unstable compared to the sax.
What is helping me is long tones with a drone track or the tone generator in TE Tuner, and occasionally checking the tuner. And I play along with demo tracks.

It's a long, slow process for an oldi.
 
I can match a note without a problem. I've a tuner that gives me a long tone and then when I play it tells me how I'm doing. I play a tone on the tuner, then I play the same note on my sax and when I look ( which is after I've started sounding the note - I don't cheat ) I'm pretty much in tune. I don't find this difficult but what I do find harder is to play alongside backing tracks where I need to make the notes at a pitch on my own, if you see what I mean.
 
Now the cool bit; add ReaTune (it's an FX that comes free with Reaper) to the channel you recorded to. Job done. You can now see exactly how accurate your intonation is.
Thank you. Do you happen to know if there's something similar I can use with Logic that works the same?
 
I don't find this difficult but what I do find harder is to play alongside backing tracks where I need to make the notes at a pitch on my own, if you see what I mean.
I really wouldn’t worry too much unless it actually sound bad. It even be that you are playing closer to just intonation and the backing is equal temperament. It can work well even though the tuner says otherwise.

Most of what I play is not in tune with an equal temperament tuner, and thus is partly why people you not to use a tuner but to use your ears.
 
Fwiw - and everyone's milage will vary - I actually use headphones/buds and play a tone with the drone or tuner tone for a minute or so, per note, not looking at the tuner. Sometimes I mix it up with chord or neighboring tones.
Ah. I just noticed you are using the same tuner as me and I've used that technique too 🙂
 
Thank you. Do you happen to know if there's something similar I can use with Logic that works the same?

I would assume Logic has a tuner that comes with it, too, that would work in exactly the same way - add it to the track like any other FX then play the track back with the tuner visible.

The tuner is used in this way as an analytical tool. Record your playing, then play it back. If it sounds okay then cool. If not, and you're not sure if you're sharp or flat or you're not sure how bad the intonation on that note is then this will tell you so you know where to work next time.
 
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I would assume Logic has a tuner that comes with it, too, that would work in exactly the same way - add it to the track like any other FX then play the track back with the tuner visible.

The tuner is used in this way as an analytical tool. Record your playing, then play it back. If it sounds okay then cool. If not, and you're not sure if you're sharp or flat or you're not sure how bad the intonation on that note is then this will tell you so you know where to work next time.
Sorry. I understand what you mean. I was a bit vague earlier and didn't quite grasp what you meant. Yes, I've got it now and thanks 😉
 
There's no easy way around the fact that the sax is an imperfect instrument. You can initially get it in tune, but that doesn't mean that you'll play all the notes in tune.

A tuner tells you AFTER THE FACT whether you were in tune or not. This isn't going to help you unless it's just that your instrument is altogether flat or sharp.

For each note you need to hear the pitch your playing in order to play in tune. On a keyboard you can read a note, hit the right key, and it's going to be right.

On a sax or any of the brass instruments to play perfectly in tune means that you are hearing the note you're playing, not just fingering the right key/valve. Your ears must be engaged rather than just having an eye to hand reaction when reading music.

If you can hear whether you're in tune or not that has to be part of your playing, not an "after the fact" exercise. Playing with computers that tell you stuff after the fact is just giving you information, not giving you what you need to correct the situation.

A suggested exercise: 1. Initially don't read, play by ear something you know and play it slowly giving attention to each note and trying to ensure it's all in tune (you can check it afterwards if you need to) . You can also do this reading, but the attention MUST be on hearing what your playing AT THE TIME. This needs to become a habitual thing, not something that stops when reading a fast passage. If you aren't listening/hearing what you're playing you will never play proficiently.

That sounds rough, but it's true, especially with the higher pitched saxes as they are more difficult to play in tune. It's unfortunate but one can too often hear players who may be well read/studied and articulate, but can't play in tune. Their concentration has always been "eye to hand reading" and not engaged their hearing.

Best of luck.
 
Thank you. Do you happen to know if there's something similar I can use with Logic that works the same?
Aha! You are recording in Logic so not only can you put the tuner plug-in on your saxophone track, but pitch flex also shows you how in or out of tune a note might be. You can also use different tuning temperaments.

But there is a caveat. Often things sound better even when the the tuner shows ad bang on tune.
 
Thank you. I will need to bone up on Logic. I only turned to it to record MIDI instruments when my arthritis caused me issues with the guitar and piano. I've never used a mic much. After a bit of early morning confusion, I believe I'm reading Dave's post above correctly, but just to make sure, I'm understanding that I'd just need to put on a pair of headphones, play the backing track, recording the sax on a separate track with a mic, then use the tuner/auto-tune thing on that. Is that right?
 
Ah. I just noticed you are using the same tuner as me and I've used that technique too 🙂
If you're using TE tuner - and your objective is to see how your tuning is over a period, rather than dicking around with DAWs, autotune etc - TE actually keeps a session log of your tuning.

You might have found it (it took me ages to stumble across); if not or for the general reader:
From the Sound or Tuning screens, tap on "Tap for Activity" then "Show current session" and you get a list or grid of Tuning by Note.
 
then use the tuner/auto-tune thing on that. Is that right?
I would not advise auto tune unless you want it to sound auto tuned. I've tried it and never liked it on saxophone.

No I would just advise using the tuner if you want to see how in tune you are (ie in tune with the tuner)
 
I would not advise auto tune unless you want it to sound auto tuned. I've tried it and never liked it on saxophone.

No I would just advise using the tuner if you want to see how in tune you are (ie in tune with the tuner)
Sorry I meant to determine how out of tune I am.

Here's what I've looked at this afternoon. If I play a C scale on my alto it's all in tune for the first couple of notes. From G it gets progressively sharper it's around 18 cents sharp on A and by the first C it's around 23 cents sharp, It seems to get sharper the higher I go. I am making a conscious effort to correct it and it gets better but that appears to be my natural instinct for some reason.

In fact in the highest octave just about everything is sharp by 1/4 tone or more 😱

If I'm playing alongside an actual note, I can make it in tune easily but not left to my own devices

Edit
I pulled my mouthpiece out and it sounds quite a bit better, though I do believe I have a tendency to sharpen notes as I go up the scale. High C is still tending to 25 cents sharp though the others sound not too bad at all !
 
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