Saxophones Played a TJ Signature Custom Raw today...wow!

I don't remember seeing a Trevor James at the Chuck Levins table at the Symposium, but I didn't really take a close look at what they had on display.. Perhaps @Martysax did?

I tried a TJ Signature Custom Raw tenor a couple of years back during my "forever" horn search. I had high hopes going in, but it didn't get past the first cut as I worked through the 9-10 horns in front of me. From what I remember, the example I played had a "nasal" tone to it that I didn't care for. It was likely some issue with the horn's setup when I tried it.

-J
 
I don't remember seeing a Trevor James at the Chuck Levins table at the Symposium, but I didn't really take a close look at what they had on display.. Perhaps @Martysax did?

I tried a TJ Signature Custom Raw tenor a couple of years back during my "forever" horn search. I had high hopes going in, but it didn't get past the first cut as I worked through the 9-10 horns in front of me. From what I remember, the example I played had a "nasal" tone to it that I didn't care for. It was likely some issue with the horn's setup when I tried it.

-J
I don't remember much about the symposium.
 
NAMM 2026, Two weeks ago I reviewed two TJ horns. RAW model?? I don’t know?? No markings on units. Never seen one before. Didn’t expect to see one, so honestly I’ve never really studied the brand.
They were represented by a distributor from Canada. The man stated he was mostly a brass man and knew little about Saxophone. Although he did mention a company selling the product in Long Beach California. Local to me.
The alto was bare brass finish. A solid quality build from quality yellow brass. Action was well balanced with good feel. Honestly I could find no faults. Including the crook to body fit. 1/4 turn locked the crook sold. I don’t make habit of playing mass gathering shows, but I do listen. A ear to crook and finger pop top to bottom . This one was whole and well worthy to play well. Honestly it felt solid and heavy in hand.

Please note ; Price point of A & T are unknown. I didn’t ask. Some (actually many) vendors were reluctant to state pricing due to global politics, exchange rates or unsure tariff rates. The focus of NAMM 2026 vendors overall was product exposure / availability.

I also reviewed a TJ tenor in silver plated. Same qualities as above, but seemed a tad bit lighter in hand. Both in mass weight and solid feel. Like went you squeeze one melon to the next. One will feel more firm.
The silver plating appeared as thick. Unlike cheesy silver electroplating.

@lukehuang77 played the silver tenor the following day. If I recall correctly, his feedback was “uneventful “.
That’s not bad or good IMHO. Basically a “ pleasing average product “.
Exactly what I think TJ marketing presents.
Not cheap junk.
Not student grade.
Not pro grade
Not top shelf.
But…
Good a solid product for those who don’t want cheap, but don’t want a Rolls Royce tab either.
Really, I think TJ is worthy of review in hand. Let your hands and ears decide where the value compares to other equal candidates.

That said. Each shop has its own unique personality. Some are less expensive… out of the case and on the shelf it goes.
Others may seem high above MSRP. Yeah, they may have already spent two hours in setup refining. Planning on another hour dialing in your needs. Plus a leak and needs review in 30 days. All at no additional cost.
ASK good questions when you buy !
 
Enquries indicate my Vito YTS-23 (501xxx) was made ~ 2000. Yamaha can't find the exact date for my YTS-25 (007xxx) but suggest it was between Jul 1993 and Nov 1995. My YAS-25 (876xx) was made in June 1998. Getting on bit but the YAS and the Vito are A1 almost like new and barely used.

The YTS-25 has been well used but in good shape, lacquer wear on palm and some pinkie keys, the strap hook ring and where it's rubbed against clothes, and some minor scratches. No dents or dings.

I like it very much (even if the TJ swayed me a little).

View attachment 33183
The reason I sold my YTS 25 tenor was because of a bad feeling. It played well. My Rovner mouthpieces played better on the YTS 25 compared to my Martin HC -38 and Martin Magna -59. But the "New King" (c -68) is the thing to handle the power from a Rovner. One day the E and F keys on the YTS 25 became hard to use. Started with slow action and after some weeks they were stuck. The tech had to drill out the rod. He installed a new rod and it played again. I've own lots of saxes over the years but just one suffering from this. Most sax folks says that with a 23 or 25 it can't go wrong. I sold the 25 and told the buyer to follow Yamaha YTS 25 owner manual. Oil often and much, was my advise.

I'm nowadays, almost, back where I started: To play and keep simple saxes playable!
 
The reason I sold my YTS 25 tenor was because of a bad feeling. It played well. My Rovner mouthpieces played better on the YTS 25 compared to my Martin HC -38 and Martin Magna -59. But the "New King" (c -68) is the thing to handle the power from a Rovner. One day the E and F keys on the YTS 25 became hard to use. Started with slow action and after some weeks they were stuck. The tech had to drill out the rod. He installed a new rod and it played again. I've own lots of saxes over the years but just one suffering from this. Most sax folks says that with a 23 or 25 it can't go wrong. I sold the 25 and told the buyer to follow Yamaha YTS 25 owner manual. Oil often and much, was my advise.

I'm nowadays, almost, back where I started: To play and keep simple saxes playable!
Well, that’s one of the problems of buying a used saxophone known to be a great student horn. Not only is the student less likely to know how to take care of a sax (or afford it), but it is more likely to be exposed to the elements (e.g. marching band).

This is why I strip, clean, and lube any new horn, regardless of how shiny it looks. Even if someone dripped lube at the post, there is no guarantee that it coats the full length of a rod.
 
Well, that’s one of the problems of buying a used saxophone known to be a great student horn. Not only is the student less likely to know how to take care of a sax (or afford it), but it is more likely to be exposed to the elements (e.g. marching band).

This is why I strip, clean, and lube any new horn, regardless of how shiny it looks. Even if someone dripped lube at the post, there is no guarantee that it coats the full length of a rod.
Yes. My 25 was at the tech for an annual service (COA; clean-oil-adjust+ev replacing max 3 pads) two months before.
 
Yes. My 25 was at the tech for an annual service (COA; clean-oil-adjust+ev replacing max 3 pads) two months before.
That just doesn’t make sense to me. If a rod binds sufficiently to have to drill it out, then there must have been corrosion already forming on the surfaces two months prior. If not, then a coating of oil on the rod would have prevented formation and growth of the same corrosion. In either of the two possible paths, I question whether the COA actually included removing the stacks to properly clean and lubricate the rods.

View: https://youtu.be/Om88CsGd9jI?si=JiR1Bo_FW-zQnVyu
 
That just doesn’t make sense to me. If a rod binds sufficiently to have to drill it out, then there must have been corrosion already forming on the surfaces two months prior. If not, then a coating of oil on the rod would have prevented formation and growth of the same corrosion. In either of the two possible paths, I question whether the COA actually included removing the stacks to properly clean and lubricate the rods.

View: https://youtu.be/Om88CsGd9jI?si=JiR1Bo_FW-zQnVyu
COA? I guess you have to ask the tech how COA is done. The quality of the oil is important but also the quality of the rods. According to the tech stuck keys happended more often on "student" saxes compared to"professional" saxes.

Learn to do COA on your own sax(es) and find out methods that works for you. Small brushes are better than pipe cleaners. Give the rod a longer bath. I don't polish a rod with a machine, I use a piece of linen cloth ..... . Saxophone repair was never paying my bills.
 
This is why I strip, clean, and lube any new horn, regardless of how shiny it looks. Even if someone dripped lube at the post, there is no guarantee that it coats the full length of a rod.
Stripping an action down, degreasing it and applying fresh lubricants is always going to be the ‘gold standard’ – but as for there being no guarantees that oil dripped onto a pillar (post) won’t coat the whole length of the rod...it depends.
In simple terms, if there’s an air gap between the rod and the bore of the key barrel, oil is going to be sucked into that gap by the pumping action that occurs when a key is actuated. That’s a guarantee. It’s physics.

However, there could be issues that cause this not to happen – the first of which is that the action is so very badly worn that it negates the pumping action. I have never seen an action that badly worn, ever – and if it was that worn then any oil is going work its way down the barrel by the force of gravity alone. And it wouldn’t be worth oiling such an action anyway because it’s never going to work properly until it’s fixed.
The second is that the barrel is gunged up. Now, I see plenty of gunged up barrels and know empirically that a spot of oil on the pillars will still work its way in. It’s a technique that comes in handy when dealing with older Ultra-Cheap horns that were lubed with some really weird Chinese grease...which dries out in the space of a year or so. In such cases I use a lighter oil than my standard lube.

But everyone likes a real-world test, right? So here’s a doozy.
This old Eubel flute has been kicking around the workshop for years. All the lubrication has dried out, leaving the keys very sluggish in action.
I picked the worst example – the low C...which is so gummy it won’t even open under the power of its spring.
It’s going to be a tough test for the oiling technique as it is but I’m not going to make it any easier by using a light oil. It’s getting synthetic gear oil that’s been stirred with a red Sharpie (so that we can see what’s going on). Plus it’s about 10 degrees C in the workshop which means the oil won’t be quite so free-flowing.
So a drop of oil is placed on the upper end of the barrel and the key is then worked for a period of time – which will be until I see evidence of oil at the lower end of the barrel.

Eubel flute rod dry.webp


The key freed up considerably after a couple of minutes but it took around 12 minutes before I saw any evidence of oil between the lower end of the barrel and the pillar – at which point I unscrewed the rod just a few millimetres and wiped it with a tissue and noted the red/orangey stain from the tinted oil.

Eubel flute rod wet.webp


So, a gummed up key; oil applied at only one end of the pillar; very little pumping action due to the size of the key and the weak spring; a moderately heavy oil – and still it made it from one end of the key to the other.
And yeah, no guarantees – but by heck you really do have go some to find an action on which this technique won’t work. Let me know when you do...
 
Stripping an action down, degreasing it and applying fresh lubricants is always going to be the ‘gold standard’ – but as for there being no guarantees that oil dripped onto a pillar (post) won’t coat the whole length of the rod...it depends.
In simple terms, if there’s an air gap between the rod and the bore of the key barrel, oil is going to be sucked into that gap by the pumping action that occurs when a key is actuated. That’s a guarantee. It’s physics.

However, there could be issues that cause this not to happen – the first of which is that the action is so very badly worn that it negates the pumping action. I have never seen an action that badly worn, ever – and if it was that worn then any oil is going work its way down the barrel by the force of gravity alone. And it wouldn’t be worth oiling such an action anyway because it’s never going to work properly until it’s fixed.
The second is that the barrel is gunged up. Now, I see plenty of gunged up barrels and know empirically that a spot of oil on the pillars will still work its way in. It’s a technique that comes in handy when dealing with older Ultra-Cheap horns that were lubed with some really weird Chinese grease...which dries out in the space of a year or so. In such cases I use a lighter oil than my standard lube.

But everyone likes a real-world test, right? So here’s a doozy.
This old Eubel flute has been kicking around the workshop for years. All the lubrication has dried out, leaving the keys very sluggish in action.
I picked the worst example – the low C...which is so gummy it won’t even open under the power of its spring.
It’s going to be a tough test for the oiling technique as it is but I’m not going to make it any easier by using a light oil. It’s getting synthetic gear oil that’s been stirred with a red Sharpie (so that we can see what’s going on). Plus it’s about 10 degrees C in the workshop which means the oil won’t be quite so free-flowing.
So a drop of oil is placed on the upper end of the barrel and the key is then worked for a period of time – which will be until I see evidence of oil at the lower end of the barrel.

View attachment 33236

The key freed up considerably after a couple of minutes but it took around 12 minutes before I saw any evidence of oil between the lower end of the barrel and the pillar – at which point I unscrewed the rod just a few millimetres and wiped it with a tissue and noted the red/orangey stain from the tinted oil.

View attachment 33237

So, a gummed up key; oil applied at only one end of the pillar; very little pumping action due to the size of the key and the weak spring; a moderately heavy oil – and still it made it from one end of the key to the other.
And yeah, no guarantees – but by heck you really do have go some to find an action on which this technique won’t work. Let me know when you do...
That’s a cute experiment, Stephen. I really don’t care if the lubricant can wet the accumulated corrosion products. The problem is that they remain in the tube. Given that an oxide is of lower density that its relative metal, it can eventually fill any space around it and bind the mechanism. Even if you wet it, it is still a hard phase that will erode the inside of the tube. The object of the game should be to ensure that the inside of the tube is free of wear and corrosion products and that the rod is fully protected.
 
That’s a cute experiment, Stephen. I really don’t care if the lubricant can wet the accumulated corrosion products. The problem is that they remain in the tube. Given that an oxide is of lower density that its relative metal, it can eventually fill any space around it and bind the mechanism. Even if you wet it, it is still a hard phase that will erode the inside of the tube. The object of the game should be to ensure that the inside of the tube is free of wear and corrosion products and that the rod is fully protected.
Yep, that's why a strip-down lube is the gold standard - but your orginal post said "Even if someone dripped lube at the post, there is no guarantee that it coats the full length of a rod."
That needed to be corrected because the vast majority of players baulk at taking a palm key off, let alone strip an entire action down (or even pay someone to do it) - and wear from accummulated particles within the lube is positively dwarfed by that of a dry action, never mind the dramatically increased chance of rust forming.
It's a proven and effective technique inbetween full services and mitigates severe damage on horns that aren't so well cared for.
 
I think my attack of GAS has worn off. :rolleyes:

After days of thinking, reading reviews, listening to sound clips, talking to my teacher and generally going around and around in mental circles, I've decided to stick with my YTS-25 and just get on with it. It's a great horn and if it was good enough for @Stephen Howard for 20 years, it's good enough for me.

I do believe that at last I am managing to control and manipulate my sound and I'm definitely deeper and warmer than I was, and I'm not too unhappy with it.

My teacher (and @PeteThomas and others) have suggested exploring mpc options. My birthday is next month so I'm planning a trip up to London to SaxCo.

Thanks as always for the advice, suggestions and support :thumb:
 
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I think my attack of GAS has worn off. :rolleyes:

After days of thinking, reading reviews, listening to sound clips, talking to my teacher and generally going around and around in mental circles, I've decided to stick with my YTS-25 and just get on with it. It's a great horn and if it was good enough for @Stephen Howard for 20 years, it's good enough for me.
Sigh. So much for the vicarious excitement in the room.

Moving on tho’, it would be interesting to learn how your YTS 25 compares to Stephan’s. I wonder whether he did any tweaks or mods to it beyond bog standard? Setup may not be everything, but it really makes a difference.
I do believe that at last I am managing to control and manipulate my sound and I'm definitely deeper and warmer than I was, and I'm not too unhappy with it.

My teacher (and @PeteThomas and others) have suggested exploring mpc options. My birthday is next month so I'm planning a trip up to London to SaxCo.

Thanks as always for the advice, suggestions and support :thumb:
A good mouthpiece is great fun. You are now in a better place than ever to benefit from such a trip. Enjoy!
 
.....it would be interesting to learn how your YTS 25 compares to Stephan’s. I wonder whether he did any tweaks or mods to it beyond bog standard? Setup may not be everything, but it really makes a difference.
I feel that my YTS-25 is slicker than the Vito YTS-23. As it was supposedly a "gigger's" horn it may have been tweaked.

My teacher/tech agrees but thinks it may be that the 25 has later style keywork, particularly the bell key table and octave mech plus the high F# key. I've read, but it might not be true, that the 25 got some of the 32 keywork when that got the 62 fittings?

Lesson learnt; there's much more left in the 25 for me to explore and enjoy. I'm cool.
 

Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀

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