Playing the saxophone Looking for altissimo advice on ancient Conn baritone

[mark_addy]

Hi folks. I play a 1918 Conn New Wonder bari in a big band. I like it, but it goes up to D# only. This is OK for nearly all the parts, but solos are a little truncated. I can't justify replacing it with something more modern, and I was wondering if anyone knows of any altissimo fingerings which would get me up a little higher. I have a sheet somewhere I used to use on a slightly less-ancient True Tone alto to get up to a high G, but these require a LH palm key and 'that RH side key two up from Bb' both of which I don't have. cheers, Mark, Manchester UK

 

[Nick Wyver]

For an E you could try fingering a G and opening the top D# a tad (to act as a sort of vent like the front F on a more modern sax). Finger an A to get the top F in the same manner. This is off the top of my head - I haven’t dragged my old (1937) Conn out of its hiding place to test it. If I do I’ll let you know.

 

[Nick Wyver]

It’s tricky isn’t it? Best I’ve managed so far is an E played as a harmonic of bottom C and an F as a harmonic of F (a bit sharp). Neither are particularly easy to get.
F# and above is considerably easier.
F# 1- - / 1- - +side Bb
G 1- -/ - - - +side Bb
G# 1-3/1- - +side C
A -23/- - - +side C
Above A you’ll probably be fiddling about with harmonics of palm keys and adding various left hand fingers for tuning.
Actually F as a harmonic of bottom Bb is more in tune.
Unsurprisingly, they get easier with even a small amount of practice.

I’ll stick with my Yanagisawa. Everything is a lot easier.

 

[Grumps]

I've got an ancient Conn bari myself, also with the limited top end. I get E3 by fingering Eb3 and adding LH 1 2 3 +G#. Not easy to do, but I've got the hands for it. I get F3 by fingering F2 and blow it up an octave. F#3 is the easiest. Octave, LH 1 2 3 / RH 1 +side Bb. Once you get that latter one, you can ride it up top with voicing to hit others.

 

[mark_addy]

Thanks for your suggestions, folks. I have given them a little go, and got nowhere at all - I can honk bottom C up to G1 (3rd harmonic, I guess) with no octave key; if I do that then it seems to work to run up the scale (still no octave key) to what would be an A, but is now a rather sharp E3. Adding RH2 puts it more in tune. But no chance of hitting this thing without running up to it - perhaps I'll get used to it, and in the process unlock your suggestions. I use a Link 7* metal mouthpiece, but this is kind of superfluous information because there is as much chance of me changing the mouthpiece, as there is of me changing the horn. Meanwhile, I'll continue my Morrisey-style restricted-compass noodling when asked to do something on 8 bars of Misty 🙂

(Edit - F follows if I stick the side Bb on top of what came before. This is fun for me, less for my semi-detached neighbours...)

 

[Grumps]

I have given them a little go, and got nowhere at all - I can honk...

Fingerings are relative, but a honk isn't quite the way I'd go about it. I mean, if we're talking altissimo. Without even having the horn in your hands, try pretending you're playing and blow as you normally would as if it were on a mouthpiece. As you're blowing out air, raise the back of your tongue up towards the roof of your mouth to squeeze off the airflow a bit. You get a sort of whistling effect, right? That's how I'd get those notes.

I will say this though, even if proficient on alto and tenor with altissimo, these old baritones aren't easy. And we're talking the really, really early ones that have no side E key or F palm key. On the plus side, in comparison to modern baritone saxophones with all their added keywork and girth, they're light as a feather for barroom honking; for which I've had quite a time with mine over the years. And of course they're meant to play down low anyhow.

Keep at it!

 

[turf3]

For me, blowing harder is exactly the wrong thing for altissimo. I have to draw back the force of my airstream.

 

[Steve Alford]

My 1916 Conn bari (Otto Link rubber tone edge 8, Van blue box 2)

High E: octave, 1,2,3,4,6, low C
High F: octave, 1,2,3,4,5,6,low C, side Bb
High F#: o, 1, 3,4
High G: o, 1,3, side C
High G#: o,2,3,4,5,6
High A: o, 2,3
High Bb: o, 3, palm D
High B: overblown palm D

Good luck!
Steve Alford
Director, Improvised Music
UNCSA

 

[mark_addy]

T

My 1916 Conn bari (Otto Link rubber tone edge 8, Van blue box 2)

High E: octave, 1,2,3,4,6, low C
High F: octave, 1,2,3,4,5,6,low C, side Bb
High F#: o, 1, 3,4
High G: o, 1,3, side C
High G#: o,2,3,4,5,6
High A: o, 2,3
High Bb: o, 3, palm D
High B: overblown palm D

Good luck!
Steve Alford
Director, Improvised Music
UNCSA

Thanks Steve, I'm looking forward to finding a (socially acceptable) time to give those a go 🙂

 

[LostCircuits]

Try to think of those altissimo notes as just playing the second harmonics, I've done that on my c-soprano when I needed just that one extra note and it was surprisingly easy.

Some other fingerings to try:

See whether you can get
x
x
o

o
x
o

to speak and then

x
x
o

o
x
Side F