Playing the saxophone Key transposition from Eb instrument to Bb instrument

[eb424]

Starts with an F i missed that one too..

 

[Dr G]

I really don't. I can play most scales and arpegios but dont have them in my head...i use Mark Archers orange book as a warm up covers scales and arpeggios A minor, G major, E minor, D major, B minor, B blues, A major, F minor, E major, C# minor, G blues, F# Blues, and full chromatic..I tend to buy a song i like transpose it and play the appropriate scale to the key as a warm up...

With all due respect to a fellow human, if you want to make progress, you have to take a step in the forward direction.

Forget the circle of fifths - it is beyond your apparent level of playing.

Start by LEARNING (not "recognizing") some scales - I'll suggest G, C, and F as starters. Maybe you'll see why, but in the meantime, they are useful on their own. Play them, play the related arpeggios, syncopate them, play with varied articulations - make MUSIC from them.

 

[Colin the Bear]

The key signatures with no # or ♭ in their name start with F.
If we start at C the one after E is F# and starts the cycle/circle off again.

 

[Tenor Viol]

Did someone say sackbuts?

View: https://youtu.be/H492IwtQmfI

 

[lydian]

Sorry not thought about it for a while

Cool Gorrillas Do Aerobics Evenings Bare ( for ) Fun..still an image huh...tho I do prefer energetically...now ive got an image of terrorists with machine guns... 🙂

If you're serious about learning the circle, there are only 3 things to memorize, "G", "GCF" and the word "BEAD". This gives you the circle in the 4ths direction, which is the most useful way. "GCF" is on the top, then clockwise to "BEAD" (all flats), then Gb at the very bottom, then "BEAD" again (naturals).

Unlike the good doctor, I think knowing the circle is necessary for learning your scales and key signatures.

When I was a kid in school, by the end of our first year of band class, we were expected to have memorized all our major scales. I hated practicing them, so I got so I could play them all in under a minute. Jay Metcalf (bettersax.com on youtube) does all of his in 30 seconds, but he does one scale ascending and a different one descending, so it's only have as many notes. Either way is a great exercise and a way to keep them under your fingers and in your brain forever without taking hardly any practice time at all.

 

[Dr G]

If you're serious about learning the circle, there are only 3 things to memorize, "G", "GCF" and the word "BEAD". This gives you the circle in the 4ths direction, which is the most useful way. "GCF" is on the top, then clockwise to "BEAD" (all flats), then Gb at the very bottom, then "BEAD" again (naturals).

Unlike the good doctor, I think knowing the circle is necessary for learning your scales and key signatures.

That's not at all what I am suggesting. I observe that eb424 spends a lot of time fixating on details that are beyond his current state - "paralysis by analysis" as some call it. That's why I prescribed a more limited and short-term goal.

 

[Colin the Bear]

First things first. A scatter brained approach to music won't work. I know. I've tried it.
It's difficult to get your head round the complications of theory when playing is so straight forward.

 

[eb424]

If you're serious about learning the circle, there are only 3 things to memorize, "G", "GCF" and the word "BEAD". This gives you the circle in the 4ths direction, which is the most useful way. "GCF" is on the top, then clockwise to "BEAD" (all flats), then Gb at the very bottom, then "BEAD" again (naturals).

Unlike the good doctor, I think knowing the circle is necessary for learning your scales and key signatures.

When I was a kid in school, by the end of our first year of band class, we were expected to have memorized all our major scales. I hated practicing them, so I got so I could play them all in under a minute. Jay Metcalf (bettersax.com on youtube) does all of his in 30 seconds, but he does one scale ascending and a different one descending, so it's only have as many notes. Either way is a great exercise and a way to keep them under your fingers and in your brain forever without taking hardly any practice time at all.

Thanks @lydian for all your support, tips and humour over the last few days....I am trying to learn theory alongside playing for fun..i do practice some scales but my main target is playing..i think a lot of yhe theory is irrelevant to what I do but i need to have some knowledge and underpinning....

 

[eb424]

That's not at all what I am suggesting. I observe that eb424 spends a lot of time fixating on details that are beyond his current state - "paralysis by analysis" as some call it. That's why I prescribed a more limited and short-term goal.

That is true to some degree @Dr G...I only play for fun and the time I spend on theory is only when I cant play....Its honestly not fixation but i would like my understanding and under pinning of theory to catch up... surely having an understanding of things outside your knowledge is what learning is all about...In my own context I am a better player than theorist but....I dont play the conventional way...re previous posts i have to learn to play conventionally if I want to play in a band for example, hence learning... Its tricky when your older but i dont really want to carry on playing alone, so there is a need to learn...all i really want to do is play...

.

 

[eb424]

First things first. A scatter brained approach to music won't work. I know. I've tried it.
It's difficult to get your head round the complications of theory when playing is so straight forward.

I respectfully disagree @Colin the Bear...my approach is not scatter brained at all...I play within my limitations of playing but playing is my focus...its only for fun...There is method in the madness and my final goal is simply to be the best i can be...I need to learn music to play with others that is a given...hencevthese posts... I try to do this when i cant play...its hard indoors family etc so its either the hall or caravan for playing..my routine is go through the scales in the book highligjted above to warm up..inc playing snippets of the songs takes 30 mins inc bit of time on full chromatic scale...then play for fun...i buy scores to enhance reading the dots.. i get these in the original key for the song which i use to play it helps with the rhythm. Then i transpose from original key for concert pitch ( i.e. piano, guitar) to tenor. I could get the website to do this but feel its a valuable lesson in theory...i can then play to the backing track and will start playing by ear at the instrumental parts.. if i had just focused on theory i wouldn't be able to string a song together quite well...if i didn't focus on theory i will play by myself quite well, which isnt my goal..all pathways will come together if in an unconventional way..

 

[thomsax]

I am trying to learn theory alongside playing for fun..i do practice some scales but my main target is playing..i think a lot of yhe theory is irrelevant to what I do but i need to have some knowledge and underpinning....

That goes for me to. I'll soon turn 66. I started to play saxophone just before Christmas 1968. I wanted to play the music that I heard on the radio. It was rock and blues. I have done a lot things over the years. Different jobs, educations, sport (football and ice-hockey on diffent levels) ... but my goal with the saxophone has been almost the same over the years: To be able to play (easy) blues and rock songs with others. I also wanted to know more about the music and what I was playing. I can't see anything wrong with that?

I'm still playing and "working" with easy songs. I play tenor and bari and try to do some singing as well. And I also like to run projects. Some guys can't read music and get so nervous when they see sheet music ... some guys can't play without the sheet music in front of them ... some guys says the know the song but they are playing something else ... some guys are vegetarians/vegans ... some guys prefer té to coffee ... some guys wants cheese on thier burgers ... some guys can eat 7 cinnamon bun ...... .

Here is a sample of an easy song. I like to sings so I learn the lyrics as well . My own notes when I was the only hornplayer. When I played something that I liked, I wrote it down. Lead sheet and 3-horn parts ..... . I know it's nerdy ... .

"Högklackat" (hi-heel ...) not me singing or the group I played with that is playing.

View: https://youtu.be/acOB49FOP8M

 

[eb424]

That goes for me to. I'll soon turn 66. I started to play saxophone just before Christmas 1968. I wanted to play the music that I heard on the radio. It was rock and blues. I have done a lot things over the years. Different jobs, educations, sport (football and ice-hockey on diffent levels) ... but my goal with the saxophone has been almost the same over the years: To be able to play (easy) blues and rock songs with others. I also wanted to know more about the music and what I was playing. I can't see anything wrong with that?

I'm still playing and "working" with easy songs. I play tenor and bari and try to do some singing as well. And I also like to run projects. Some guys can't read music and get so nervous when they see sheet music ... some guys can't play without the sheet music in front of them ... some guys says the know the song but they are playing something else ... some guys are vegetarians/vegans ... some guys prefer té to coffee ... some guys wants cheese on thier burgers ... some guys can eat 7 cinnamon bun ...... .

Here is a sample of an easy song. I like to sings so I learn the lyrics as well . My own notes when I was the only hornplayer. When I played something that I liked, I wrote it down. Lead sheet and 3-horn parts ..... . I know it's nerdy ... .

"Högklackat" (hi-heel ...) not me singing or the group I played with that is playing.

View: https://youtu.be/acOB49FOP8M

Defo get that workshop soryed lookong at ferry prices...;-)

 

[Targa]

Now THAT's as funny as a cat.

 

[thomsax]

Defo get that workshop soryed lookong at ferry prices...;-)

I hope I can get Andrew Clark over to Sweden coming summer for some "Thriving Rocksax Workshops" or "Back to Rocksax Workshops". The pandemic made halt in the Rocksax efforts. I'll let you know "if", "how" and "when"

 

[Jimmymack]

I think somebody already suggested this, oh, it was me, learn your Major scales, don't play them from a book, learn them. One at a time, away from the books, play one scale until you know it, improvise on it, play chords if you can, anything, just stick with that scale until you know it well enough to just play it if it was called. Then move one to another. You can do it in any order that makes sense to you, round the clock, flats first then sharps or chromatically, doesn't matter, just learn them so that you don't need to refer to texts.

 

[jazzdoh]

my routine is go through the scales in the book highligjted above to warm up..inc playing snippets of the songs takes 30 mins inc bit of time on full chromatic scale...then play for fun

What no long tones.😵😵
Seriously if want to be in a band then you must learn your scales and chords and do lots of sight reading using the dots.
As Jimmy has said, learn them scales , don't read them from a book.

 

[eb424]

I think somebody already suggested this, oh, it was me, learn your Major scales, don't play them from a book, learn them. One at a time, away from the books, play one scale until you know it, improvise on it, play chords if you can, anything, just stick with that scale until you know it well enough to just play it if it was called. Then move one to another. You can do it in any order that makes sense to you, round the clock, flats first then sharps or chromatically, doesn't matter, just learn them so that you don't need to refer to texts.

Lost on chords TBF @Jimmymack ..New thread anybody ;-) . Rest makes sense TBF...time tho...

 

[Jimmymack]

Lost on chords TBF @Jimmymack ..New thread anybody ;-) . Rest makes sense TBF...time tho...

Yes probably another thread although learning how to derive them would probably be better done from a book, and I’ll bet you have one that tells you the formulae. The basic idea is pretty straightforward, but you need to know your scales. A thread will soon fill up with stuff that throws you off course.

 

[lydian]

Thanks @lydian for all your support, tips and humour over the last few days....I am trying to learn theory alongside playing for fun..i do practice some scales but my main target is playing..i think a lot of yhe theory is irrelevant to what I do but i need to have some knowledge and underpinning....

Yes, there is a lot of theory you don't need right now. But you do a LOT of transposing, so the construction of the major scale and knowledge of all key signatures is inescapable, hence the circle of 5ths is required. If you didn't transpose written music and only played by ear, I'd agree you could skip the theory. But that's not the case with you. You rely heavily on written music and written transposition. The easier path would be by ear, if you're willing to try it.

 

[Colin the Bear]

An arpeggio is a chord.
Have look in Taming the saxophone.
It contains everything you'll ever need to know.