Saxophones Just Retired! New to the forum and new to the saxophone

[Pete Thomas]

and if it is indeed a good piece to start on as a beginner that's great because it should be flexible enough to use for a very long time, should it not?

For a very long time or maybe even a very very long time. But you may still find something better once you go beyond beginner stage and have the ability to discern what might be a better mouthpiece. Objectively of course beause for some people there may be no better mouthpiece

 

[kamak]

For a very long time or maybe even a very very long time. But you may still find something better once you go beyond beginner stage and have the ability to discern what might be a better mouthpiece. Objectively of course beause for some people there may be no better mouthpiece

I figured, since this is what I had read about them. Hope this helps the OP or others!

 

[cappers]

But you may still find something better once you go beyond beginner stage and have the ability to discern what might be a better mouthpiece.

@JSherry58 ......... I started on a 4C (tenor) and changed to a 5C a few months later which was just what I needed at my stage of playing. But after several months I hankered after something more flexible and richer. I bought a used Selmer Soloist-Style Longshank 'E' from @Pete Thomas and haven't looked back.

It's said you'll know when it's time to change your mpc and I didn't understand...how, why, what are the signs? I can only comment retrospectively, I knew the Soloist was for right me when I blew it. I still play the 5C but it feels quite restricted now in comparison to the Soloist.

I do get moments of wondering what an Otto Link or PPT or JodyJazz would sound like but I am content for now.

 

[MikeMorrell]

Hello to all. I’m excited to be part of Café Saxophone.
I’m brand new to the saxophone and have never played any instrument. I currently own a Selmer AS500 and have an opportunity to purchase a 1928 Conn New Wonder II alto sax. I have only been paying the Selmer for a couple of weeks, and as I understand it, the Conn will have a little more difficult economics. I know intonation is another potential concern, however I am really doing pretty well with my embouchure thus far. I am thinking that since I am just starting anyway, it may be better to learn on the saxophone that I plan on playing as I continue on this journey. What are your thoughts about that? Would I be better to continue to learn on the Selmer, then switch to the Conn after I become more proficient? Or might I just as well start on the Conn and grow with it. It is my understanding the Conn will have a very very warm and beautiful sound as compared to a modern student horn. Thanks, John

Hi @JSherry58 and welcome to the cafe! I wish you lots of pleasure in learning to play sax!

I tend to agree with those who recommend sticking with with the Selmer AS500 for now. A couple of weeks in, my guess is that you still have much to learn. Not only in physically playing sax (posture, breath support, embouchure, finding the best mpc/reed, etc.) but also in developing some 'fluency' and speed on the sax keys.

You don't mention how you came to buy a Selmer AS500. But I would suggest that (unless you have a more experienced sax player to help you decide between the Selmer and the Conn) it's much too early to think of switching between (or playing) both saxes.

So my advice is to stick to one sax for now. So that you gradually learn to instinctively feel where each key is to play any tune, scale, etc. Only then can you IMHO start to think about comparing the ergonomics (and tone) of your Selmer AS500 with other saxes.

IHMO, as a relative beginner, whatever sax you start learning on (as long as it's not difficult to play) doesn't make much difference. Mainly because almost 90% of your 'sound' is determined by you and not by your sax. So changing/switching saxes won't make you play or sound any better. IMHO it might even make 'learning' more difficult due to small differences in the 'ergonomics'.

Best wishes,

Mike

FWIW, I happily played on the same sax for 10 years before considering 'upgrading' to a sax with a more bit 'metal'. I bought (and still play on) a 1961 'vintage sax', mainly because I couldn't afford a new or 2nd hand Selmer. With 10 years playing experience, I could compare the 'ergonomics' (and loudness/tone) of my current sax with some 2nd hand alternatives. The one I chose (within my budget) was not the loudest but simply the sax that I found easiest to play (ergonomics).

 

[JayeNM]

I do see your points @skeller047 and @JayeNM about the 4c. Definitely is a good mouthpiece but limited in many ways. I had not considered a 5m as a starting point. Are they less consistent piece to piece than a 4c? If so do you have suggestions for someone like the OP just starting off to find a 'good one'? Or are there different vintages of Meyers that are better than others in the consistency department?

I ask because I myself do not know(I dont have a Meyer nor have I played one), and if it is indeed a good piece to start on as a beginner that's great because it should be flexible enough to use for a very long time, should it not?

5c is just a 4c with a slightly wider tip opening. I would say yes, for an adult mouth, 5c opening might be more appropriate...buf it will not otherwise perform much differently

 

[kamak]

5c is just a 4c with a slightly wider tip opening. I would say yes, for an adult mouth, 5c opening might be more appropriate...buf it will not otherwise perform much differently

I was responding to you and @skeller047 who said a Meyer 5m would be better than a Yamaha 4c for a beginner.

I asked for clarification on the Meyer 5m because I figured your experiences(or others!) with that mouthpiece would help the OP or others who may read this make a good informed choice. 😉

 

[JayeNM]

I was responding to you and @skeller047 who said a Meyer 5m would be better than a Yamaha 4c for a beginner.

I asked for clarification on the Meyer 5m because I figured your experiences(or others!) with that mouthpiece would help the OP or others who may read this make a good informed choice. 😉

Very good, I misread, sorry.

Meyer is a more refined mouthpiece. Tonality is warmer and rounder.

Sorta like....imagine you play a 4c or 5c on your horn. Remember the sound it produces in your head.

Then play a Meyer M rubber, say a 5 yes, that would be a good tip opening for a starter player.

If it can be described in terms of tone controls...

The sound produced will be as if someone turned up the bass and midrange tone , and rolled off the treble a bit....for the Meyer.

If that makes sense ....

The Bari Esprit and Fobes Debut also produce that result to a significant degree. They are both plastic, and machine-finished, thus cheaper than a Meyer.

 

[kamak]

Very good, I misread, sorry.

Meyer is a more refined mouthpiece. Tonality is warmer and rounder.

Sorta like....imagine you play a 4c or 5c on your horn. Remember the sound it produces in your head.

Then play a Meyer M rubber, say a 5 yes, that would be a good tip opening for a starter player.

If it can be described in terms of tone controls...

The sound produced will be as if someone turned up the bass and midrange tone , and rolled off the treble a bit....for the Meyer.

If that makes sense ....

The Bari Esprit and Fobes Debut also produce that result to a significant degree. They are both plastic, and machine-finished, thus cheaper than a Meyer.

No problem at all!

Awesome this is great info and hope it can help. I am glad you guys brought up the Meyer as I wouldn't have considered it for a beginner. Now I wish I could go back and start on a 5m and see what that would be like!

As an aside I also have a Caravan alto piece that came with one of my horns that is very warm and plays really nicely. It had a sweet and darkish tone quality that is most definitely better than a 4c. Would that be a recommendation some would suggest instead of a 4c as well along with the Bari and Forbes? Only problem is that they are on the more expensive side last I checked. Could potentially be a good choice for someone looking to do classical work?

 

[JayeNM]

No problem at all!

Awesome this is great info and hope it can help. I am glad you guys brought up the Meyer as I wouldn't have considered it for a beginner. Now I wish I could go back and start on a 5m and see what that would be like!

As an aside I also have a Caravan alto piece that came with one of my horns that is very warm and plays really nicely. It had a sweet and darkish tone quality that is most definitely better than a 4c. Would that be a recommendation some would suggest instead of a 4c as well along with the Bari and Forbes? Only problem is that they are on the more expensive side last I checked. Could potentially be a good choice for someone looking to do classical work?

Caravans are SUPER DARK toned, I like them but likely too dark for most folks' tastes. They are quite "specific application" sorta mouthpieces, as opposed to 'general/flexible situation".

I would NOT spend that significant an amount of $ on a mouthpiece at this point in your development, IMHO. IMHO, Meyers, at around $130 a pop, might also be more of an investment than necessary for you right now...

 

[kamak]

Caravans are SUPER DARK toned, I like them but likely too dark for most folks' tastes. They are quite "specific application" sorta mouthpieces, as opposed to 'general/flexible situation".

I would NOT spend that significant an amount of $ on a mouthpiece at this point in your development, IMHO. IMHO, Meyers, at around $130 a pop, might also be more of an investment than necessary for you right now...

I'm just glad mine came with one of my horns. I didn't expect to like it, but I definitely do. But I agree, it's really quite dark. Sounds super awesome with the Committee III alto though.

 

[skeller047]

No problem at all!

Awesome this is great info and hope it can help. I am glad you guys brought up the Meyer as I wouldn't have considered it for a beginner. Now I wish I could go back and start on a 5m and see what that would be like!

As an aside I also have a Caravan alto piece that came with one of my horns that is very warm and plays really nicely. It had a sweet and darkish tone quality that is most definitely better than a 4c. Would that be a recommendation some would suggest instead of a 4c as well along with the Bari and Forbes? Only problem is that they are on the more expensive side last I checked. Could potentially be a good choice for someone looking to do classical work?

To clarify, the Meyer is a good choice for an ADULT beginner, who is interested in playing jazz. Too much mouthpiece and probably too expensive for a young person.

The Fobes Debut is excellent, but is more classically oriented. Perfect for someone playing in a community concert-style band, but maybe not a good choice for a jazz performer, even a beginning one. The Bari Esprit is similar, aimed at school bands. Both of these are a good couple of steps above the Yamaha 4C. And they are much cheaper than a Meyer.

For classical playing, the default is Selmer, but these are even more expensive. Vandoren has a good line of classically oriented pieces. I am sure there are others, but I am a jazz player. FWIW, some people (not many) play Meyer in a classical setting.

Budget is always an issue. Somewhere between $150 and $200 is the “sweet spot” for a good serviceable advanced-to-pro level mouthpiece. Meyer fits squarely into this price range, as do many others.

 

[PigSquealer]

Meyer fits squarely into this price range, as do many others.

Sage advice!
The $150-$200 range there’s many great options!!!!

What many see is just $$$ or £££.
To these potential buyers look at the makers real costs.
The material alone for a tenor is just sub $50 at bulk buying. Bar stock or raw casting costs for a blank. $40 raw material cost is real.
Ok, so the maker now has a useable blank to shape. To those who don’t know. These are not stamped out as final pieces from a mold. Each requires some human hand work
Think of blank as worth $45 and add two to three hours of a skilled MPC technician to refine. Just choose an hourly rate for a highly skilled tech. Then add on the operating costs and answering stupid emails.
$150-$200 is not unreasonable for your neighbor to eat the same as you !

To members reading this. @skeller047 is spot on. $150-$200 is not unreasonable for a mouthpiece that is at the very minimum hand crafted. Not junk and has QC of great consistency.

 

[kamak]

To clarify, the Meyer is a good choice for an ADULT beginner, who is interested in playing jazz. Too much mouthpiece and probably too expensive for a young person.

The Fobes Debut is excellent, but is more classically oriented. Perfect for someone playing in a community concert-style band, but maybe not a good choice for a jazz performer, even a beginning one. The Bari Esprit is similar, aimed at school bands. Both of these are a good couple of steps above the Yamaha 4C. And they are much cheaper than a Meyer.

For classical playing, the default is Selmer, but these are even more expensive. Vandoren has a good line of classically oriented pieces. I am sure there are others, but I am a jazz player. FWIW, some people (not many) play Meyer in a classical setting.

Budget is always an issue. Somewhere between $150 and $200 is the “sweet spot” for a good serviceable advanced-to-pro level mouthpiece. Meyer fits squarely into this price range, as do many others.

Great advice! Especially in that price range.

What would you (or others who want to chime in) consider an 'adult' vs 'child' beginner?