IOTM January 2014: Moonlight after the storm

[BigMartin]

Thanks Martin, I struggle so much with rhythms and think I spend so long trying to figure out what's going to be interesting for the listener that I lose momentum and end up just noodling aimlessly.

But of course, being aware of the problem is the first step to fixing it. And don't be hard on yourself. I think I've heard a certain amount of noodling in all the versions I've listened to, along with the good stuff. There's certainly plenty of it in mine.

I'm not a natural improvisor I'm afraid

Is anyone? It's not a natural thing to do. We didn't evolve to play saxophones. And the Dorian mode is only a few hundred years old.

but will keep working on it as it's something I'd like to do more often. These threads help a lot though and I love to listen to all the other players on here and try to learn from different interpretations.

Indeed. And thanks to Aldevis for producing such a nice track to play on.

 

[Jamesmac]

Thanks Jim.
I always tend to put too much of the horn in the mix when mixing through the headphones, but without them I tend to do the opposite.
I find it hard to get a good balance.
Sue: liked that one and thought your tone was a standout.
Would also agree about holding onto some of those notes a little longer.
But enjoyed it all the same.s

I dont think its straight forward deciding the balance, i think the same as you, can be a difficult call. Clivey picked up on one of my posts having too much sax, and the more i listened the more i thought he was right. I tend to set a 15 degree pan to the sax now, which helps put the sax back in the mix.

 

[Jeanette]

Both new versions are great. Thanks James for joining.

Jeanette, try to use your notes just as colours, without building a phrase. A bit like James's first part.
Long and meaningful notes.
ACDEG are good thorough the whole piece.

As an alternative, play the melody, than reshuffle its notes.

James I need you first part back again help!

Jx

 

[Jamesmac]

Okay, here goes nothing. Not sure if I'm doing this right, as I'm just really just having a noodle rather than knowing if I'm playing Doreen's scale or whatever, and my bloody intonation at the top is beginning to get on my nerves, but I enjoy playing along to stuff like this, so thanks to Aldevis.

(Not sure why it sounds like I'm playing through a wet straw in places either. Ah well, it's been a long day...)

https://soundcloud.com/timbo_music/cafe-sax-improv

Just had a listen all the way through, nice melodic lines, and a great build up. Could stand alone as independent melodies.
Sets its own mood, real musical performance. I am in hope i can do the same, if i could stop my fingers telling me what to do.

 

[Jamesmac]

James I need you first part back again help!

Jx

Can i make a few changes first.I just listened to timbo

 

[Jeanette]

Can i make a few changes first.I just listened to timbo

Of course no rush, I doubt after this afternoons efforts I'll be posting anything 🙂

Jx

 

[Sue]

Here's another attempt. It's just rained really hard and this melancholy feel reflects my mood, I think

Anyway I've tried to take on board ideas and hope you like it a bit 🙂

DeadAudiolink Removed

 

[Jeanette]

Sue what a dark horse you are that was lovely 🙂

Jx

 

[BigMartin]

Really liked thatone, Sue.

 

[aldevis]

Here's another attempt. It's just rained really hard and this melancholy feel reflects my mood, I think

Anyway I've tried to take on board ideas and hope you like it a bit 🙂

DeadAudiolink Removed

The lack of BT makes it great. Beautiful sound.

Is there any way I can download / convert your file to an mp3 file, please?
I keep playalongs like this in an ITunes file on my Mac.

If you open them in a new window, you should be able to "save as" or drag them on the desktop
http://www.aldevis.com/edu/IOTM/IOTM114.mp3
http://www.aldevis.com/edu/IOTM/IOTM114nosax.mp3

 

[Jamesmac]

Here's another attempt. It's just rained really hard and this melancholy feel reflects my mood, I think

Anyway I've tried to take on board ideas and hope you like it a bit 🙂

DeadAudiolink Removed

Very nice Sue. Great control with the dynamics, eat your heart out Jan G

 

[TimboSax]

This is food for thought
I tend to find my fingers get the wanders, so what comes out is a bit incoherent. What I have started doing is playing the the sustained chord with the left hand on the keyboard, and play around with some notes on the right. I did this with the impro in Antonios Song, and was pleasantly surprised how having a framework of sketches gave me more freedom and a better more of what I want to say.
I don’t know why I have persevered with just trying to make it happen { possibly thinking because i can play lots of notes LOL} with just hearing and playing along with a BT. I have seen the best Sax/Trpt players do this in the past.

That's interesting. I spent years trying to break away from my fingers controlling what I played on guitar. In the end I decided that when I'm improvising, my brain doesn't work quick enough to think beyond patterns. So I'll go up/down/load/quiet/noodle around THIS area of the fretboard with THIS pattern. This means that what I try and do is learn lots of little patterns (obviously musicians call them licks, I'll call them patterns )

Now the obvious danger of this is that you are constrained by the patterns that you know. The Gary Burton course on jazz improv actually said to avoid patterns and to think in terms of scales. I disagree, to me scales are just another pattern, so just learn more patterns 🙂. Patterns can be merged, altered, split etc, but for me it's how I see music, how I perceive music when I listen to it, so it makes sense to me to play it that way.

 

[TimboSax]

Just had a listen all the way through, nice melodic lines, and a great build up. Could stand alone as independent melodies.
Sets its own mood, real musical performance. I am in hope i can do the same, if i could stop my fingers telling me what to do.

Thanks Jim, you're too kind. I just had a listen, and all I could hear was the 'playing through a straw' buzz!

Oh, and sometimes trust your fingers. They're closer to the action than your brain is 😀

Can i make a few changes first.I just listened to timbo

You gone out to buy a wet straw? 😉

 

[Nick Wyver]

I disagree, to me scales are just another pattern

That's because you think of scales as what you do when go mindlessly up and down them. You should think of scales as being groups of notes that you can construct melodies from.

 

[TimboSax]

Here's another attempt. It's just rained really hard and this melancholy feel reflects my mood, I think

Anyway I've tried to take on board ideas and hope you like it a bit 🙂

DeadAudiolink Removed

Loved it Sue, great dynamics and tone

 

[TimboSax]

That's because you think of scales as what you do when go mindlessly up and down them. You should think of scales as being groups of notes that you can construct melodies from.

Good point Nick. One of the things that I did get from the improv course was the desirability of playing about with the order of notes within the patterns (scales), which I think is what you're referring to. This is something I do with my patterns, with varying levels of success. Some patterns may be fairly fixed (a simple blues turnaround for example), but others are indeed the groups of notes that you mention that I can try to put together in novel and (hopefully) interesting ways. With the sax I'm fortunate (!) to still be unable to play at any speed and so my brain can still keep up somewhat.

 

[Ivan]

Here's another attempt. It's just rained really hard and this melancholy feel reflects my mood, I think

Anyway I've tried to take on board ideas and hope you like it a bit 🙂

DeadAudiolink Removed

Ethereal

 

[Jamesmac]

That's interesting. I spent years trying to break away from my fingers controlling what I played on guitar. In the end I decided that when I'm improvising, my brain doesn't work quick enough to think beyond patterns. So I'll go up/down/load/quiet/noodle around THIS area of the fretboard with THIS pattern. This means that what I try and do is learn lots of little patterns (obviously musicians call them licks, I'll call them patterns )

Now the obvious danger of this is that you are constrained by the patterns that you know. The Gary Burton course on jazz improv actually said to avoid patterns and to think in terms of scales. I disagree, to me scales are just another pattern, so just learn more patterns 🙂. Patterns can be merged, altered, split etc, but for me it's how I see music, how I perceive music when I listen to it, so it makes sense to me to play it that way.

I think guys like yourself who already play another rhythm/lead instrument to a good standard, and have experience in that vernacular Will always be comfortable to play a coherent solo with any instrument once they have developed some facility with the new instrument. And your solos show that. How you construct those solos is and how good they may be depends on your creative ability.
I find that because I've spent most of my music life sitting and reading the dots, when I am confronted with, just play what you like I have a tendency to overplay. I can quite happily sit at the keyboard and compose, And really enjoy the creative process. I use a sort of melodic approach, could be question answer, using certain interval and rhythms, or whatever. For me melody with a certain instrumental technique is key. I find it easy, firstly because it's in slow motion. Put a sax in my hands and I lose that composure. I realise it's a skill but its something I find I need to work on.

 

[Jamesmac]

Sometimes we can get ideas from things we have read. What I found useful. ( and wish I would have acted on it sooner) a comment re. Miles Davis. The comment went something like this. Miles playing along side Coltranes intricate and complex solos, is able to analyze and play back the solo in a simple way, without losing the essence of the solo.
I think it is in reference to Miles as a young guy playing next to a jazz legend.
PS. How many Sax players does it take to change a light bulb. A hundred. One to change the bulb, and the other ninety nine to stand around and talk about how Coltrane would have done it.🙂

 

[Colin the Bear]

I thought you were going to say the other 99 to discuss the set up, pearl or clear, led or halogen for brightness, SES or bayonet and what the bulb holder is made of.