Playing the saxophone Intermediate song suggestions

Was really hoping for some versions with a few lesson notes! I love the early smooth lyrical style like Johnny Hodges. Was looking to find some more sax players in that vein.
LISTEN to some Paul Desmond (not necessarily saying you need to find transcriptions of Desmond solos, just listen to Paul's heads).....most of his stuff doesn't fly by you in a millisecond, he is quite lyrical and pretty with his melodies.
 
The most enlightening pieces of music may not be on saxophone. Singers will help you with phrasing.

The education gained from playing melodies by ear is incorporating the bum notes without dropping the tempo or tune. Many a great solo was just a player digging themselves out of a hole or finding another way through.

Playing transcripts of the greats doesn't do it for me. It's not the notes that make it great.

Gerry Mulligan is worth a listen. The 1950's album "Two of a mind" with Paul Desmond should stimulate your imagination. 😉
 
Bye Bye Blackbird is an excellent suggestion for many reasons. It can be played very simply, or as Coltrane played it with Miles Davis. It has a wonderful structure to learn, from the tonic, to the dominant, back to the tonic, then a little chromatic bridge that's easy to follow.
 
The education gained from playing melodies by ear is incorporating the bum notes without dropping the tempo or tune. Many a great solo was just a player digging themselves out of a hole or finding another way through.
LOL, indeed 100% true.

It's a methodology I (an un-great player) employ..... quite often...unintentionally, of course. Sometimes I'll even repeat the ersatz note or phrase a few times, to make it seem like it was part of the plan..... 😳


Playing transcripts of the greats doesn't do it for me. It's not the notes that make it great.
Me neither. There's a thread going on at the 'other' forum about how, after transcribing a solo, one then needs to proceed with analyzing it up the wazoo, and practicing it until they have it down pat.
You've killed a special quality/dynamic when one does that, IMHO.
I know, it works for some people, and that's cool,
But not for me.
 
Last edited:
transcribing a solo, one then needs to proceed with analyzing it up the wazoo
I keep repeating, I know, but hearing something you like and analysing it is very good for developing your musical hearing. Decades ago, I did transcribe a few sections of McCoy Tyner solos. It literally changed my ability to hear chords and added the knowledge of how one great player heard them harmonically. There would have been no real benefit in transcribing the entire solo. After listening enough times, those things are in my head, almost note for note.

To me, the essence of learning from what has gone before (i.e., someone else's playing) is not transcribing, but figuring out the notes being played, then analysing the how and why. Let's face it, yes, there's a structure to a whole solo, but aside from that, at least 80% of any solo isn't ground-breaking stuff but often fairly classic things done very well, and with a personal twist. Again, Bye Bye Blackbird or Autumn Leaves are very simple hearable melodies and chord changes. Listening to several of the many versions by great players will reveal how they turn these tunes into their own. I think that's worth doing and it takes far less time than transcribing a whole solo.

It has never been easier than it is today to slow down a phrase or a set of chords, with something like Audacity. For the McCoy turnarounds, I had to start and stop the cassette tape a million times, but after hours of this, I had this valuable resource. Since then, I can mostly listen to something that strikes me, go to an instrument, get the notes, and figure out what exactly was interesting about it. It's not always the notes themselves, often the rhythmic use of them, or the "framing", i.e., how a particular note was arrived at. This is often a key element of the style of a player. It is certainly a key element of all improvised music.
 
I keep repeating, I know, but hearing something you like and analysing it is very good for developing your musical hearing. Decades ago, I did transcribe a few sections of McCoy Tyner solos. It literally changed my ability to hear chords and added the knowledge of how one great player heard them harmonically. There would have been no real benefit in transcribing the entire solo. After listening enough times, those things are in my head, almost note for note.

To me, the essence of learning from what has gone before (i.e., someone else's playing) is not transcribing, but figuring out the notes being played, then analysing the how and why. Let's face it, yes, there's a structure to a whole solo, but aside from that, at least 80% of any solo isn't ground-breaking stuff but often fairly classic things done very well, and with a personal twist. Again, Bye Bye Blackbird or Autumn Leaves are very simple hearable melodies and chord changes. Listening to several of the many versions by great players will reveal how they turn these tunes into their own. I think that's worth doing and it takes far less time than transcribing a whole solo.

It has never been easier than it is today to slow down a phrase or a set of chords, with something like Audacity. For the McCoy turnarounds, I had to start and stop the cassette tape a million times, but after hours of this, I had this valuable resource. Since then, I can mostly listen to something that strikes me, go to an instrument, get the notes, and figure out what exactly was interesting about it. It's not always the notes themselves, often the rhythmic use of them, or the "framing", i.e., how a particular note was arrived at. This is often a key element of the style of a player. It is certainly a key element of all improvised music.

Ok you guys have inspired me to stop looking for transcriptions and to start listening more and playing by ear. Think I'll have a look at this Audacity, seen it mentioned a few times on here now so must be a useful tool.

Thanks all for your suggestions
 
Ads are not displayed to logged in members. Yay!
Audacity is just a recording software with a few tools and effects. It won't make you a better player or listener. It will however eat up your day faffing about with it. 😉
I'm more and more curious about your chosen appellation, "the Bear".

This said, Audacity is a very useful tool, and in the context of this post,

1. Open a music file
2. Choose "Effects"
3. Change "tempo"

Very simple operation. Many years ago, you had to play the vinyl album on 16 rpm or the single on 33 1/3 rpm and then it was in a weird key.

Change tempo slows the part down and keeps the key the same.

Screen Shot 2020-04-17 at 16.46.22.webp
 
I keep repeating, I know, but hearing something you like and analysing it is very good for developing your musical hearing. Decades ago, I did transcribe a few sections of McCoy Tyner solos. It literally changed my ability to hear chords and added the knowledge of how one great player heard them harmonically. There would have been no real benefit in transcribing the entire solo. After listening enough times, those things are in my head, almost note for note.

To me, the essence of learning from what has gone before (i.e., someone else's playing) is not transcribing, but figuring out the notes being played, then analysing the how and why.

This is where I sorta agree and disagree. I think we agree more than disagree....

I agree that it develops your ear. But one need not take a scalpel to the transcription AFTER one has written or played it to do that ? THIS modus operandi is what I criticize.

"The how and why" ...what does that mean exactly ? Why is that a 'necessity' ?

What is the "why" ?

What is the "how" ?

"Why did that player choose that note/phrase ?" "How did he/she ever come up with those notes ?"

What does it gain you, precisely ?

This is where I have a disconnect with those who feel a solo needs to be pulled apart. A jazz solo (since we are talking Jazz here) is something which flows, almost instantaneously, out of the artists being.
To actually pick it apart in pieces and then find some academic-based qualities to adhere its aspects or phrases or qualities or 'reasoning' to....to create or relate it to some sort of 'rule'...

I understand this works for some...w.ho feel the need to compartmentalize or codify things into an understandable 'package' so to speak....(which sorta describes academic learning)

But it doesn't work for others, is basically all I am saying.

It becomes, in my view, an overly-academicized exercise.

IMHO, the main benefits of transcribing:

1) it develops your ability to hear music mo' betta' (we agree on this)

2) it allows you to identify phrases and excerpts where the artist applied a choice of notes or phrasing to a particular bar or section of the piece...and if you dig that, you can take that away and use it in some form in your own playing.

3) if one chooses to, they can try to play the transcription which would likely improve their technical ability to some degree (if the excerpt is challenging from a technical standpoint).

There's not much more analyzing that needs to be done than that, in my opinion.

That's regarding solos. Regarding tunes, another story, as it relates more to hearing the notes correctly and then figuring out what the chord beneath the melody might be. THIS, I feel, is a more worthwhile endeavor. And quite straightforward.

OK, my digression over...
 
Last edited:
Not a digression at all!
What does it gain you, precisely ?


So you understand (or maybe agree) that figuring out the notes will make things easier to hear, right? Scalpel, no. Transcribe, no, I mentioned my experience, but that happened like once 🙂

Analysis, yes,; but nothing formal :

Here's an example: Listen to the first chorus of Miles' solo. Do you like it? (If not, find something else to listen to that you do like.) What makes this unique? Without going into twenty more paragraphs, I'd sum it up this way. Listening to Mile Davis' first chorus, one hears that he has a way of using notes economically and space in a personal way. Some very clever use of leading tones, structures, like the way he starts the solo with a note from a previous measure, then repeats a two-note phrase... That's some serious mastery of the tension release in the song. Are these foreign terms? I think they're good to know.

If this all comes naturally or seems obvious, then you're already there, congrats! I just feel strongly that for a beginner who's trying to find a way to improve without imitating, noticing how someone else does something you admire is important.

Actually, people with extensive music educations study composition. This is exactly that, except the composition is spontaneous. And doing it this way, you don't need a program or a teacher.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV2lNHfSXBQ
 
So you understand (or maybe agree) that figuring out the notes will make things easier to hear, right? Scalpel, no. Transcribe, no, I mentioned my experience, but that happened like once 🙂
Yes, 100% I agree, and yes, no scalpel is necessary.

The 'significant' aspects of an artists solo are pretty readily apparent once the solo is transcribed.

My crticism was more towards those who use a 'dissect' approach.

Matter o' fact, ONCE the transcription is done (when done by YOU)....you have already absorbed 3/4 of the important stuff.


(It's a digression to the degree that poor Mr. Ritchie, the OP - was only asking for a list of tune suggestions, lol)
 
Matter o' fact, ONCE the transcription is done (when done by YOU)....you have already absorbed 3/4 of the important stuff.
True, because transcription is a b.... it's a m... transcription is really hard!

@dritchie7 I hope we haven't confused you or drowned you! I am in many threads on this forum and I forgot this one was asking for songs, not philosophy. I do hope maybe this brought something of interest to your attention.

As to being on topic, we've mentioned the ballads of the month, aka BOTM and the songs of them month SOTM. I feel I have learned a lot and still could learn much more from listening to Coltrane's Ballads album. Many of the songs are very simple and simply beautiful. There are equivalent albums probably by Stan Getz, or the oft-mentioned Cannonball or Paul Desmond.
Listening without transcribing, but still maybe reflecting, with a glass of wine or a cup of tea, upon the reason you like what you're hearing.
 
Here is the example I was looking for with Miles. Listen to how he plays the melody.
On the last A section (44 seconds in), what is he doing? He moved to another key. This isn't some laborious exercise, just think about what happened at this point, it's interesting, and move on. It's a lesson in personality in music.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYMPppzqWoU
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'd really like some ballads similar to in a sentimental mood

How about something from John Coltrane Ballads album?

You Don't Know What Love Is (mentioned by @JayeNM)
Say It (Over and Over Again)
Too Young to Go Steady
All or Nothing At All
I Wish I Knew
What's New (BOTM)
It's Easy to Remember (But So Hard to Forget)
Nancy (With the Laughing Face) (BOTM)

You can quickly hear each melody by going to youtube, as there's an index in the description.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dKmQGJ7bw4
 
How about something from John Coltrane Ballads album?

You Don't Know What Love Is (mentioned by @JayeNM)
Say It (Over and Over Again)
Too Young to Go Steady
All or Nothing At All
I Wish I Knew
What's New (BOTM)
It's Easy to Remember (But So Hard to Forget)
Nancy (With the Laughing Face) (BOTM)

You can quickly hear each melody by going to youtube, as there's an index in the description.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dKmQGJ7bw4
Thanks I'll check those out
 

Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀

Popular Discussions on the Café

Latest Song of the Month

Forum statistics

Topics
31,945
Messages
565,541
Members
7,969
Latest member
willyoueverwin
Back
Top Bottom