Theory & Impro Improvising and all that jazz

[Mix O Lydian]

YouTube - with the arrangements on the site, under the YouTube tab

View: https://youtu.be/SfNe1inUi7E

Yes I found it! I have been mainly focussed on the lesson sections and not really delved into the You Tube bit. I am currently working through the Learn to Improvise section and Music Theory sections. You have set quite a challenge though! He also has Corcovado as this month's challenge, which is one of my favourite songs!

 

[Jeanette]

Yes I found it! I have been mainly focussed on the lesson sections and not really delved into the You Tube bit. I am currently working through the Learn to Improvise section and Music Theory sections. You have set quite a challenge though! He also has Corcovado as this month's challenge, which is one of my favourite songs!

You could start a new thread for this and invite contributions from other members too? The recording section used to have an improvisation of the month. You might if you want it get useful feedback from more experienced members 🙃

Jx

 

[mizmar]

I have been mainly focussed on the lesson sections

I think one of the strengths of our man's approach is that the example tunes use and show the ideas in the pedagogical / method courses. Sooo... Learning the tunes is actually seeing and practicing the "Theory" which is nice.

You have set quite a challenge

Indeed. It's not a quick fix. Certainly I still struggle to get all the way through and Indiana will certainly take me weeks^§! But I am a worst case scenario... It gets easier, eventually, slowly; but one still has the pleasure of learning and playing a tune.

He also has Corcovado

Which is nice to play.

^§Actually, i learned the beginner version, by ear, on a tin whistle already today. It's mostly diatonic... And I practice leaning by ear... Practice.

 

[Mix O Lydian]

I think one of the strengths of our mans approach is that the example tunes use and show the ideas in the pedagogical / method courses. Sooo... Learning the tunes is actually seeing and practicing the "Theory" which is nice.

Yes , agreed

Indeed. It's not a quick fix. Certainly I still struggle to get all the way through! But I am a worst case scenario... It gets easier, eventually, slowly; but one still has the pleasure of learning and playing a tune.

I played through the easy version of Indiana by ear. That will be a good ear song to work on this week, but, I feel I need to go away and learn more improvising stuff before attempting to improvise over it though!

 

[mizmar]

but, I feel I need to go away and learn more improvising stuff before attempting to improvise over it though!

Sure. My suggestion was to learn the intermediate version (ie ask how someone else improvises over it) and then try an idea or two of your own. + Learn many tunes to have a head full of ideas. At least, that's my direction of travel; everyone should find their own path.... But my suggestion certainly won't help if you short-circuit it!

 

[skeller047]

I played through the easy version of Indiana by ear. That will be a good ear song to work on this week, but, I feel I need to go away and learn more improvising stuff before attempting to improvise over it though!

What does “learn more improvising stuff” mean? The best only way to learn to improvise is to just do it. Sure, practice your scales and patterns and arpeggios and all the technical stuff. But spend a good amount of time, half your practice time, just playing over the tunes you’re working on. Or playing on a single chord. Or just playing anything at all.

I would encourage you to create one single simple idea and play it through the whole tune. The simple version 🙂 Maybe make up a new tune that is just this one idea, repeated rhythmically but changed to fit the chords. Do it by ear, keep working at it till it “fits”

I’ve been listening to a lot of Thelonius Monk lately, his birthday is this week, and his tunes were all over the jam sessions I went to last week. I noticed his very simple tune “Bright Mississippi”, which is based on Sweet Georgia Brown. A single melodic idea, just a triad, with a simple rhythmic variation. That’s the whole tune. It’s incredibly hip Something like that based on Indiana would be just as cool.

 

[Mix O Lydian]

The best only way to learn to improvise is to just do it. Sure, practice your scales and patterns and arpeggios and all the technical stuff. But spend a good amount of time, half your practice time, just playing over the tunes you’re working on. Or playing on a single chord. Or just playing anything at all.

@skeller047 – this has actually been a really interesting and productive week for me, so far, doing exactly that.

I decided to revisit Autumn Leaves. First, I really listened to it — not just the notes, but the lyrics, the story, the mood. I sang the song, followed along with the lead sheet, and paid attention to the feeling of it — for me, it’s sad, wistful, a little melancholic and full of longing. I used iRealPro to sing and then play the chord tones, checking that what I heard matched what was written (it did, thankfully!). I also tried to sense how the harmony moves — cue arty hand gesture 😎.

Obviously, what I hear and how I express it depends on my own influences — the music I’ve absorbed, my preferred version (Cannonball Adderley’s take on Somethin’ Else), and my current level of ability on the sax.

Once I’d really internalised all that, then I dove into the more theoretical side — looking at the major and minor II–V–I progressions, and how different ideas of playing these might fit my version of the story. I spent time exploring that lovely chromatic descent near the end figuring out how I would approach this.

The result? I’m starting to shape an improvisation that might still be musically simple, but it feels emotionally honest and personal — and that’s what I’ve been aiming for.

I feel I connect more deeply with the music when I approach it this way. For me, it’s more satisfying to explore how the tune feels and what it’s saying, rather than starting from theory and building everything around that.

I'm feeling more positive about improvising now!

 

[skeller047]

I feel I connect more deeply with the music when I approach it this way. For me, it’s more satisfying to explore how the tune feels and what it’s saying, rather than starting from theory and building everything around that.

Music is the art of expressing emotion. Theory is just a description of what a composer or improviser did. The feeling you get from a tune is what they meant.

Studying theory can be useful, but it’s all in service to expressing your intent more clearly. Brava, you are on the path now. How exciting!

 

[Colin the Bear]

Always bear in mind that simple can be beautiful. Complicated depends on your level of understanding. What may be simple for me may be too complicated for you or visa versa.

You're not trying to show how clever you are. You're serving the music.

As an afterthought check out the original French lyric for Les feuilles morte

Les feuilles mortes - song and lyrics by Yves Montand

Les feuilles mortes lyrics and Translation (Meaning: "The Dead Leaves" or English version "Autumn Leaves)" sung in French Yves Montand and Edith Piaf.

www.frenchlearner.com

 

[progger]

@skeller047 – this has actually been a really interesting and productive week for me, so far, doing exactly that.

I decided to revisit Autumn Leaves. First, I really listened to it — not just the notes, but the lyrics, the story, the mood. I sang the song, followed along with the lead sheet, and paid attention to the feeling of it — for me, it’s sad, wistful, a little melancholic and full of longing. I used iRealPro to sing and then play the chord tones, checking that what I heard matched what was written (it did, thankfully!). I also tried to sense how the harmony moves — cue arty hand gesture 😎.

Obviously, what I hear and how I express it depends on my own influences — the music I’ve absorbed, my preferred version (Cannonball Adderley’s take on Somethin’ Else), and my current level of ability on the sax.

Once I’d really internalised all that, then I dove into the more theoretical side — looking at the major and minor II–V–I progressions, and how different ideas of playing these might fit my version of the story. I spent time exploring that lovely chromatic descent near the end figuring out how I would approach this.

The result? I’m starting to shape an improvisation that might still be musically simple, but it feels emotionally honest and personal — and that’s what I’ve been aiming for.

I feel I connect more deeply with the music when I approach it this way. For me, it’s more satisfying to explore how the tune feels and what it’s saying, rather than starting from theory and building everything around that.

I'm feeling more positive about improvising now!

Awesome. That's the ticket right there.

As far as I'm concerned, the point of the whole "practice/study" side of music is to develop and strengthen musical intuition. I don't have time to think when I'm on a gig, I need to just hear and react, and to instinctively know where everything is. But the aesthetic concept, how it all sounds and feels, is key to that intuition as well, and really comes first. Using the Cannonball/Miles recording, which is top-tier, for influence and inspiration is immediately pointing you in the right direction.

Intuit, then study, then intuit, then study – mess around, be disciplined, play around, be disciplined, forget about that crap and just play, be disciplined again, etc. Back and forth, forever, always with something else to work on. It's really pretty awesome, and it's why rich guys are jealous of us. 🙂