Saxophones How will Tariffs affect Sax Prices?

[Colin the Bear]

If nobody buys, the price rise has no effect.

 

[rhysonsax]

If nobody buys, the price rise has no effect.

If nobody buys the economy turns towards depression.

Rhys (not cheerful)

 

[Targa]

For ungrammatical 'dictators':
I run the world becomes ruin the world.
That's not politics it's satire.

 

[ghostler]

There's a bleak attitude of potential price increases, magnitude unknown. Why worry?

Reality of the factors have yet to reveal themselves. Some will be immediate like immediate charges (import duties) when buying from certain countries. Others will evidence themselves in some cases by the indirect costs. Since most of the cost in instrument manufacturing is labour, I sense that any increases in material cost will be minimal in comparison.

I really feel that yes, we see looming changes ahead that seem disfavourable, the reality is we have no choice but to live with the consequences, because many of these decisions are out of our control.

Saxophone playing has survived wars, union shutdowns, transportation problems, and etc.

The art of saxophone playing will continue regardless. We just adapt to availabilities of sources and methods to keep us playing.

 

[thomsax]

Maybe the tariffs will increase the prices so much that it's better to start or re-start domestic produktion again. I'm not thinking on saxes. After the energy crise in 1973/1974 the oil pice went up a lot so it was better to open the Norwegian and UK oil produktion in the North Sea. Off-shore technique instead of using big tankers. The oil was also better. With off-shore technique we didn't need so many tankers. So many shipyards went bankrupt. That happened to Kockums in Malmö/Sweden. Skåne-Gripen was formed and some years later Skåne-Gripen bought King. Conn ..... and many others companies. Lots of competens in former Kockum (submarines .....) and the state was afraid that competens and knowledge could get in wrong hands.

Today we have no saxophone manufactoring in USA so they have to buy stencils from China and they have annonced higher tariffs than USA.

 

[Dibbs]

...The math is simple. ...

...I don't think it is quite that simple...

You are both right,

 

[rhysonsax]

The math is simple.

You seem to have left out the word "minded".

Rhys

 

[jazzdoh]

Why worry?

Because a lot of people might lose their jobs and even their homes.

 

[ghostler]

Because a lot of people might lose their jobs and even their homes.

But, still, how will such worry help us to continue to live ... and move beyond?

Following is a favourite of mine by Helen Shapiro (1961 - she was still a teen then):

 

[jazzdoh]

But, still, how will such worry help us to continue to live ... and move beyond?

Following is a favourite of mine by Helen Shapiro (1961 - she was still a teen then):

You have a very flippant way of dealing with this, there is going to be a lot of pain all over the world because of what's happened, just look at the faces of the traders that work at the stock markets, they were all totally dejected.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Sadly I'm not sure this thread will last much longer than all the many threads on SOTW.

Please keep politics out of it, which includes linking to YouTube videos that are obviously political. (Not Helen Shapiro of course, she's OK)

Just saying...

It would be nice if we can have this discussion.

 

[Colin the Bear]

If consumption goes down, that's good for the planet.
If shipping stuff halfway round the globe reduces, that's also good for the planet.

If a few millionaire traders are sad faced, it's about time. I'm all out of sympathy for millionaires. 🤗



We'll get over it

 

[thomsax]

If tarriffs will start a trade war we are all losers. Last time it happended was in 1929 ..... . I think we have more and other things to thnk of if a trade war becomes reality.

 

[Pete Thomas]

If consumption goes down, that's good for the planet.
If shipping stuff halfway round the globe reduces, that's also good for the planet.

If a few millionaire traders are sad faced, it's about time. I'm all out of sympathy for millionaires.

If tarriffs will start a trade war we are all losers. Last time it happended was in 1929 ..... . I think we have more and other things to thnk of if a trade war becomes reality.

All of that may be true, but we are talking specifically about sax prices here. I don't think we are going to get very far.

We need to keep this on topic (and yes I admit I am guilty of not doing so...)

 

[thomsax]

Not a political question, of course, and there's no need to discuss the DT

But, I've recently been in the market for an alto sax and watched the price, new, of a particular make and model rise over a few weeks, even before this week's tariffs were initiated

Given that sax parts for country-specific makes are often sourced from China, it looks to me that even the humble sax might be affected in price or availability, in some, or perhaps all countries... But I ain't an economist, so any informed discussion appreciated

The sales price of a sax is dependeing on ......

..... if the" buying" country have tariffs for saxophones and saxophone accessories. If I remember right I think EU tariffs were 4,5% on saxes and 4,6% on accessories from USA.

When I bought a sax from USA I paid the invoice amount to the seller No VAT/sales tax on the saxes. The VAT/sales tax is not tariffs. A high sales tax, we have 25% in Sweden, is not a tariff. The selling country may see it as a trade barrier but have nothing to do with tariffs.

 

[Woodpad]

For now I just watch the price of a JBS1000 at Thomann nl (3398) curious how much it will go up.

 

[jazzdoh]

I think it could go either way, saxophones could go up because of tariffs but if the rest of the world do deals with others excluding the US. then you might find that deals that are better, it's just a waiting game.

BTW just to put the record straight I don't care about stock market traders but just used them as an example of how serious this could be for many around the world as stocks are wiped off companies, they have seen stock market crashes before but this if it goes on and on has the potential to be the worst.
Sorry for the OT but just needed to explain myself.

 

[jonf]

The more value added to a raw material the greater the cost, so the impact on these finished products of tariffs will be far greater than that on raw materials. The latest talk is of 104% tariffs on goods imported to the US from China, which will include saxophones. It's my understanding that most of the student saxes sold in the US - including those with pseudo-Western brand names to cater for local market preference - come from China. So these will rocket in price, of course, reducing he affordablity of entry level instruments. There is no domestic manufacture to take advantage of that, so the lowe end of the market will become much less affordable. Other instruments will go up by varying amounts, depending on where they come from, including the more premium options coming from the EU and Japan.

Will all this have a beneficial impact on markets other than the US (which is, after all, 95% of the World's population)? I really don't think so. The global market as a whole will be pinched, and I don't think there is enough elasticity in demand in the world market to make it worth trying to make up for lost US sales by lowering prices, to ramp up deamnd elsewhere. Indeed, I think the most likely outcome is the opposite. As prices rocket in high tariff countries, those in lower tariff areas such as the EU, Australasia and the far East may well rise, although by less than the rate of tariffs in high tariff areas. This is to compensate for the loss of profit from sales in areas where demand falls off a cliff. In none-high tariff areas, demand for saxes is realtively inelastic, although it may also be depressed by the impact of a global recession.

Forty years ago I studied these sorts of issues at a university with a strong reputation for economics. In future years, the events of 2025 will be a case study for such students.

 

[mizmar]

Exchange rates haven't been discussed much. Factoring that in is both important and a mindf--k.
Exchange rates affect all products indiscriminately

As demand from, say, the US from China goes down, the cost of ¥ in $ goes down (less demand for the currency) so stuff gets cheaper till it finds a new equilibrium. Indeed China is often accused of keeping it's currency weak.
Same between the €/$, £/$ etc.
But the money markets are very fluid (efficient - you can't get more ¥ by buying $ then ¥ rather than ¥ directly) so what happens to €/¥ or £/¥ exchange? If the ¥ weakens more then the € or £ - Chinese good become cheaper... Demand for ¥ would increase, exchange rates strengthen etc. till the equilibrium is found... And it is really hard to know where that is with many countries currencies in play. Indeed it has been argued that it is, technically speaking, chaotic.

 

[thomsax]

I've been listening and read about the new tariffs. What are the tariffs based on? Are they based on adjustments on the tariffs that we have today? Right now it's nothing to talk about .... Is it a new world order we see? UN, WHO, WTO, Treaty of Paris ...... nothing to care about?