Playing the saxophone How to growl on saxophone - please help find examples

Examples of the saxophone growl​

Growling is one of the most popular effects on the saxophone. We often associate it with rock and pop playing but it's also a very legitimate technique in jazz, used by the greats from Ben Webster through to David Sanborn.

Before I go on the describe it, here are some audio examples:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGrg57RbqBE

Although we think of the saxophone growl as an effect, it can be applied with different intensities. You can use it here or there on one or two notes or add it quite extensively. It's up to your taste and judgment how you use it. It can be anything from a slight edge to brighten the tone to a full on snarling roaring tiger growl.

It is a sort of equivalent to a guitarist using a distortion pedal.

How do you growl on a saxophone​

First of all one of the misconception is that you growl while playing. That is not likely to work. Another misconception is that you roll your RRRs. Again, that won't work either - BUT - it does give a different but related effect: flutter tongue.

To growl you simply sing, or rather hum, while you are playing. It's not actually possible to sing of course because there is a mouthpiece in the way, but humming (which takes place in your throat) works well.

Which note to hum?​

That's the $1000 question. Some people say to hum the same note as you are playing but slightly (or very) out of tune, others to hum a specific harmony or interval relative to the note you are playing.

I have found that either of those may work, but nobody I know of has yet come up with an explanation of how out of tune or which interval. The way it works is that the note (being out of tune or different to the one you are playing) causes interference with the sound wave of the saxophone to cause the distortion. It may be that not all saxophone notes growl based on the same amount of pitch variation or harmony in the hum.

My preferred method of learning is via a sort of subconscious process of trial and error. Trying to sing along, whether out of tune, or in harmony is just too difficult a process.

So try this:

• Play a note on the saxophone
• While playing, hum any note and while keeping on the same saxophone note, vary the pitch of your hum
• Listen carefully to the note and as your hum varies and note when it causes the tonal interference - and the resulting growl.
• Play that note again (asa long note) while humming that same pitch if possible
• Repeat a few times and then move on to a different and do the same process over again

This way you will gradually find you automatically hum whatever note works best for each note or series of notes you are playing.

Another very quick example...Happy growling evybody!



PS: We are pleased to also bring you a a soundcloud tutorial from our very own cafe member Taz.

https://soundcloud.com/taz-16%2Fgrowl-tutorial

View: https://soundcloud.com/taz-16/growl-tutorial

 

[John Laughter]

My question is would techniques such as growling be easier to learn on a freer blowing sax such as the z: Or does this just come with time?

Do you need some suggestions about how to "growl"? As stated, the m/p and horn does not make a difference but your approach to the growl technique might make it easy or a little more difficult if you are new at it.

 

[eb424]

Do you need some suggestions about how to "growl"? As stated, the m/p and horn does not make a difference but your approach to the growl technique might make it easy or a little more difficult if you are new at it.

Yhat would be great ...

 

[Dr G]

Pick a horn - any horn - and commit.

Your ability to express yourself comes with time spent with a horn in your face. And no, it's not just the quantity of time, but its quality. Always listen to what comes out of your horn. Does it match what you hear BEFORE you blow? No? What can you do to change that? Adjustments in embouchure, airstream, tongue position, support, etc. The sound comes from YOU.

 

[John Laughter]

I have used the “hum” technique to produce the growl since 1956. Both the growl and the “flutter tongue” were very popular techniques used by sax players in Rock & Roll and R&B music which was hitting the airwaves in the late 50s.

Those of us who joined the local school band and liked the new music were asking the band director what this new “gritty or raspy” sound was that we were hearing on Billboard Top 40 hits featuring Lee Allen and Grady Gaines on tenor and Earl Bostic on alto.

This effect was used before the 50s and is still very popular in many forms of music. The 1985 hit Rockin' at Midnight by The Honeydrippers features Keith Evans using a lot of this technique in his tenor solo.

There are other ways to achieve the growl effect from what I have read on the NET over the years but I have only used the method of humming while playing a note to get the growl tone.

I suggest that the best way to learn this technique is to start with only the mouthpiece. Once you get the sound on the m/p, attach it to the neck. If you use the entire horn it can be a problem at first due to the coordination involved. Play a note on the neck then start “humming” a note that is higher or lower than the pitch that is coming out of the neck. Some players hum in a falsetto range to get above the note that is produced by the neckpiece. Some players will sing/hum a lower note. For example, when I play a G above the staff on tenor I find that I usually hum the pitch that is close to D below the G.

If you hum the same pitch that is coming out of the neckpiece or sax the effect will be cancelled.

At first you may feel that it is taking a lot of air to play and hum at the same time on the neckpiece. This is natural because you will probably open your throat and exhale too much air as a result of your efforts to hum and exhale at the same time. Easier said than done at first! In time you will learn to control the amount of "hum" and the coordination will become natural. Now put the horn together and see what happens.

Another approach is to forget the sax mouthpiece and form your mouth to hum/sing as if you are going to sing the word "you" but leave off the "y" so that you get the ooooooo them make the hum sound at the same time.

After you get the "ooooo" sound then add air (exhale) and hum. The "oooo" volume will diminish with the addition of the exhaled air which is fine. Your throat area under your chin will rise, or tighten slightly which is normal. The combination of the hum and exhale will produce a rough sound which is normal.

Many of us use the growl in the middle and high range, especially from high A above the staff to high F#. I have found that the most effective area for the growl is starting on 2nd space A of the staff and upward. Once you go below 2nd line G it can become somewhat garbled.

I have read articles that suggest that you hum a (3rd above the note) being produced on the horn. However, while on stage during a live performance with guitar, piano and bass amps I can’t hear the note that I am humming due to the stage volume. I have never thought about the “3rd above” concept so I can’t comment on it, however if it works for you that is all that matters. I hum in a range that is usually below the notes being played which works for me. Some players use the "gargle" growl but I don't kno what that means. And some use the "rolling r's" method. Just depends on what works best for you.

As you practice this effect ask for more advice from other local sax players and review articles on the internet as indicated below. This is valuable because there is always more than one way to approach any effect. Just depends on what works for you.

To listen to examples cut and paste the following titles on YouTube;

LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL—SHIRLEY AND LEE—LEE ALLEN—TENOR

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj1yV0K4q1g


SLIPPIN’ AND SLIDIN’—LITTLE RICHARD—LEE ALLEN—TENOR

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpIEnB3UROo


KEEP A KNOCKIN’—LITTLE RICHARD—GRADY GAINES—TENOR

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHrAZhQEO90


UNCHAIN MY HEART—JOE COCKER—CLARENCE CLEMONS—TENOR

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtFUX4Y2U84


THE HEAT IS ON—GLEN FREY—DAVID WOODFORD—TENOR

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKWgYKa2Fh0


ROCKIN’ AT MIDNIGHT—HONEYDRIPPERS—KEITH EVANS—TENOR

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcuUDjYJpLY


UP THERE IN ORBIT—EARL BOSTIC—ALTO

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmNcw2rt1J4


FREEWAY OF LOVE—ARETHA FRANKLIN—CLARENCE CLEMONS—TENOR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtd3Wzn_YK

Other links for the growl;

The saxophone growl - a lot easier than you think if you follow this guide

Saxophone Frequently Asked Questions

Rock & Roll Sax - Book/CD Pack+

And there are many more websites. And those who are contributing to this post will have more suggestions. It is an excellent sound effect which has been used for many years. Apparently no one really knows when, where or why it begin but it does lend itself to a bit of a nasty slezzy sound which works very well on some styles of music. Hope some of this helps!

 

[John Laughter]

Yhat would be great ...

See above entry

Post moved to own thread Growling technique

 

[eb424]

Pick a horn - any horn - and commit.

Your ability to express yourself comes with time spent with a horn in your face. And no, it's not just the quantity of time, but its quality. Always listen to what comes out of your horn. Does it match what you hear BEFORE you blow? No? What can you do to change that? Adjustments in embouchure, airstream, tongue position, support, etc. The sound comes from YOU.

Hmm the mouthpieces make quite a bit of difference surely. The Durga plays really bright and the Gaia darker and the Phil tone really dark and quiet..Different horses for courses and venues..Philtone at home, gaia in the van and Durga for the church hall. TBF i have resisted temptation to play the conn and have only played the Raw since I got it... 14 months...I get on fine with it can play it well but was just wondering if a freer blowing sax makes technique easier...TBF the guy I play with has played for fourty years and he said Im working harder on the Raw...it must be harder to impose yourself on the sax if its resistant but its that resistance that gives it the tone I like...

 

[eb424]

Do you need some suggestions about how to "growl"? As stated, the m/p and horn does not make a difference but your approach to the growl technique might make it easy or a little more difficult if you are new at it.

I'm struggling to see how a sax and neck cant make a difference,..... not being argumentative or unappreciative of advice but surely a sax with more resistance would be harder to achieve a growl (or any other technique on) if you are just starting out with technique...I think Yamaha make different necks with different levels of resistance...I may be well of the mark tho....

 

[Dr G]

Hmm the mouthpieces make quite a bit of difference surely. The Durga plays really bright and the Gaia darker and the Phil tone really dark and quiet..Different horses for courses and venues..Philtone at home, gaia in the van and Durga for the church hall. TBF i have resisted temptation to play the conn and have only played the Raw since I got it... 14 months...I get on fine with it can play it well but was just wondering if a freer blowing sax makes technique easier...TBF the guy I play with has played for fourty years and he said Im working harder on the Raw...it must be harder to impose yourself on the sax if its resistant but its that resistance that gives it the tone I like...

Rather than pick the best trick that each mouthpiece performs, consider where they overlap. Stick with ONE mouthpiece and change what YOU do to make the mouthpiece fit the need. Need less volume and edge at home - adjust your airstream and embouchure to reign in the Durga. Need more volume from your Phil-Tone - open your throat and increase your support. I have played dance bands with a classical setup (Morgan 6C .090") and rehearsed with my classical quartet on my Lamberson J8 .120. Yes, I had to learn to manage my air to fill a room with a classical piece. Blending with my quartet was the hardest I have ever worked, but no one knew what I was doing at the time so I was very happy with the experiment. I wouldn't do the .120" ever again with a classical quartet, but it is good to know that I can. I have since re-evaluated my needs and dialed in my tenor setup to a Phil-Tone Intrepid 7* (.105) for enhanced articulation and an expanded range of timbre, while maintaining a wide range of dynamics (my horn is a Borgani Jubilee OBT).

Bottom line: Find the mouthpiece that best covers the most of your needs, then fill in the gaps with control. If you keep switching mouthpieces to make life easier, you'll never be driven to get the most from your horn and yourself, nor will you expand the limits of your expression.

 

[eb424]

Rather than pick the best trick that each mouthpiece performs, consider where they overlap. Stick with ONE mouthpiece and change what YOU do to make the mouthpiece fit the need. Need less volume and edge at home - adjust your airstream and embouchure to reign in the Durga. Need more volume from your Phil-Tone - open your throat and increase your support. I have played dance bands with a classical setup (Morgan 6C .090") and rehearsed with my classical quartet on my Lamberson J8 .120. Yes, I had to learn to manage my air to fill a room with a classical piece. Blending with my quartet was the hardest I have ever worked, but no one knew what I was doing at the time so I was very happy with the experiment. I wouldn't do the .120" ever again with a classical quartet, but it is good to know that I can. I have since re-evaluated my needs and dialed in my tenor setup to a Phil-Tone Intrepid 7* (.105) for enhanced articulation and an expanded range of timbre, while maintaining a wide range of dynamics (my horn is a Borgani Jubilee OBT).

Bottom line: Find the mouthpiece that best covers the most of your needs, then fill in the gaps with control. If you keep switching mouthpieces to make life easier, you'll never be driven to get the most from your horn and yourself, nor will you expand the limits of your expression.

Fantastic @Dr G great advice as usual..🙂..There all fairly new pieces i play the Gaia mainly as it fits all three venues..

 

[Jeanette]

Welcome!

@John Laughter @eb424 do you guys mind if I move the growling posts to their own thread John's wonderful post will then be easier to find for others in the future?

Jx

 

[LostCircuits]

I'm struggling to see how a sax and neck cant make a difference,..... not being argumentative or unappreciative of advice but surely a sax with more resistance would be harder to achieve a growl (or any other technique on) if you are just starting out with technique...I think Yamaha make different necks with different levels of resistance...I may be well of the mark tho....

Not really, like several others mentioned, it is your humming along that makes the difference and the resistance of the horn hardly plays into it - I have never found a difference switching between different setups and there are a few songs where you actually need to growl so I am doing it quite a bit.

As to whether you are humming along with the melody, which is the easiest to control but somewhat less efficient or you hum the second voice (my favorite but you need to know what you are playing) or simply doing the bear growl described by @Colin the Bear, is not only a matter of preference but also a matter of nuancing the effect.

As an example, a few weeks ago I was sitting in at a blues jam and they decided to play "Start it up" by Robben Ford. For reasons that would be off topic I didn't feel like playing a "nice" solo but instead resorted to growling => emulating the sound of revving up the engine in chromatic steps. That was a situation where I had to resolve to an extreme growl, like humming + Grrrrr and it worked out really well but it really wouldn't matter if I had a different setup. Just be aware that this will put a lot of strain on your throat and keep it short, have some Ricola ready for afterwards.

 

[Colin the Bear]

A nice milky coffee seems to lubricate the growly bits for me. Probably more of a phlegmy bubble than a growl.

A set up that needs the least amount of player input is what I'm looking for.

 

[thomsax]

My question is would techniques such as growling be easier to learn on a freer blowing sax such as the z: Or does this just come with time? Would there be a major difference in someone who has only been playing for 4-5 years between the z and a mk1 62 with a g neck?.. Thanks as always..

When I growled I didn't want it to be "easy and freeblowing". I used the growl when I wanted to give some tones to words like "anger", "wild", "pushing", "screaming", ........ . Unleash the animal inside of you. I did my best growls at jams. Not at home sitting in the chair. The mouthpiece and the saxophone matters. My Rovner Deep-V D40 (high baffle) # 10 (.130") tenor mpc with hard # 4 (# 5 is/was out of production) plasticover baritone reeds on my Martin Committee saxes was my thing. I decided that's was the right set-up for me. I stopped seaching and started to paracice a lot. In tune or out of tune? I didn't care so much. I thought I had a personal and ok sound and I enjoyed it. My fellow musicians also thought it was great. And the few guys that came to listen also thought it was good. We all like a fighter that is trying. And it hursts as well. Teeth, lips and throat can hurt a little bit after a good seance. " Keep On Honkin' " .

 

[eb424]

fighter

Hi @thomsax are you saying to ylu the sax snd piece matters..Cheers always motivational reply..

 

[Jimmymack]

When I growled I didn't want it to be "easy and freeblowing". I used the growl when I wanted to give some tones to words like "anger", "wild", "pushing", "screaming", ........ . Unleash the animal inside of you. I did my best growls at jams. Not at home sitting in the chair. The mouthpiece and the saxophone matters. My Rovner Deep-V D40 (high baffle) # 10 (.130") tenor mpc with hard # 4 (# 5 is/was out of production) plasticover baritone reeds on my Martin Committee saxes was my thing. I decided that's was the right set-up for me. I stopped seaching and started to paracice a lot. In tune or out of tune? I didn't care so much. I thought I had a personal and ok sound and I enjoyed it. My fellow musicians also thought it was great. And the few guys that came to listen also thought it was good. We all like a fighter that is trying. And it hursts as well. Teeth, lips and throat can hurt a little bit after a good seance. " Keep On Honkin' " .

With that setup I expect they heard you all over Sweden, in fact I think I heard you.

 

[Jimmymack]

Hi @thomsax are you saying to ylu the sax snd piece matters..Cheers always motivational reply..

You can growl with anything, just pretend you’re playing a kazoo.

 

[Colin the Bear]

That just occured to me too. Practice adding voice while blowing with a kazoo.

Perhaps this could be your next horn?

Music in Motion: INSTRUMENT KAZOO Saxophone

Kazoos are a natural for overcoming shyness--and they're FUN! 9.5 in.

www.musicmotion.com

 

[mizmar]

Practice adding voice while blowing with a kazoo.

Perhaps this could be your next horn?

What sort of membrane do you recommend?

membranes

 

[Jimmymack]

What sort of membrane do you recommend?

membranes

Spider egg sacs every time.

 

[Veggie Dave]

Hi @thomsax are you saying to ylu the sax snd piece matters..Cheers always motivational reply..

Growling has nothing to do with gear. The one thing to watch out for is tightening your emboucher when you growl.