Playing the saxophone How to growl on saxophone - please help find examples

Examples of the saxophone growl​

Growling is one of the most popular effects on the saxophone. We often associate it with rock and pop playing but it's also a very legitimate technique in jazz, used by the greats from Ben Webster through to David Sanborn.

Before I go on the describe it, here are some audio examples:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGrg57RbqBE

Although we think of the saxophone growl as an effect, it can be applied with different intensities. You can use it here or there on one or two notes or add it quite extensively. It's up to your taste and judgment how you use it. It can be anything from a slight edge to brighten the tone to a full on snarling roaring tiger growl.

It is a sort of equivalent to a guitarist using a distortion pedal.

How do you growl on a saxophone​

First of all one of the misconception is that you growl while playing. That is not likely to work. Another misconception is that you roll your RRRs. Again, that won't work either - BUT - it does give a different but related effect: flutter tongue.

To growl you simply sing, or rather hum, while you are playing. It's not actually possible to sing of course because there is a mouthpiece in the way, but humming (which takes place in your throat) works well.

Which note to hum?​

That's the $1000 question. Some people say to hum the same note as you are playing but slightly (or very) out of tune, others to hum a specific harmony or interval relative to the note you are playing.

I have found that either of those may work, but nobody I know of has yet come up with an explanation of how out of tune or which interval. The way it works is that the note (being out of tune or different to the one you are playing) causes interference with the sound wave of the saxophone to cause the distortion. It may be that not all saxophone notes growl based on the same amount of pitch variation or harmony in the hum.

My preferred method of learning is via a sort of subconscious process of trial and error. Trying to sing along, whether out of tune, or in harmony is just too difficult a process.

So try this:

• Play a note on the saxophone
• While playing, hum any note and while keeping on the same saxophone note, vary the pitch of your hum
• Listen carefully to the note and as your hum varies and note when it causes the tonal interference - and the resulting growl.
• Play that note again (asa long note) while humming that same pitch if possible
• Repeat a few times and then move on to a different and do the same process over again

This way you will gradually find you automatically hum whatever note works best for each note or series of notes you are playing.

Another very quick example...Happy growling evybody!



PS: We are pleased to also bring you a a soundcloud tutorial from our very own cafe member Taz.

https://soundcloud.com/taz-16%2Fgrowl-tutorial

View: https://soundcloud.com/taz-16/growl-tutorial

 

[Colin the Bear]

Just get a Rico Metalite. Probably cost you less than the candles you'll need to melt and probably taste a whole lot better too.

 

[kevgermany]

Just get a Rico Metalite. Probably cost you less than the candles you'll need to melt and probably taste a whole lot better too.

Nothing subtle about those. Somewhere between a chain saw and a kazoo.

 

[Veggie Dave]

Nothing subtle about those. Somewhere between a chain saw and a kazoo.

I was thinking about trying one, given that they're only £23, but I'm not sure either of those descriptions represent what I'm looking for. 😉

 

[Veggie Dave]

Hmm, there's a review on Amazon for the Rico Metalite M7 that appears to be written by someone we know.

Okay, time to buy another mp, even though I've only just bought a Yamaha 7C. 😉

 

[Colin the Bear]

I think anyone would benefit from trying a Metalite. I've tried them on sop, alto, tenor, baritone and clarinet. It's the best mp I've had for clarinet which really surprised me. It can be really sweet or raucous and loud. They're very well designed, well made and consistent. They sell on easily too , so no worries there if you decide to move on.

It may help educate your embouchure in the direction you want to go. I was wondering if you want a Candy Dulfer sound, she plays alto innit?

 

[Veggie Dave]

I've just got back from work and had an hour or two messing around. First, I played with blu tack baffles and came to the conclusion that a brighter mp is definitely for me.

Secondly I found the magic key for me regarding growling, it's Yoda's philosophy: don't try - do. 😉 I realise that this probably sounds utterly bizarre or even downright stupid, but I've found that if I decide to hum while playing a note rather than concentrate and try to hum, then nine times out of ten I hum and the growl starts. Even stranger, by not trying to hum I found I could even control the amount of growl more often than not.

 

[Veggie Dave]

I was wondering if you want a Candy Dulfer sound, she plays alto innit?

Trying to explain what I hear in my head my be something of a challenge.

When I played bass, my set-up was such that the bass rang like a deeply resonant bell. This meant that, by changing the way I played, I could play any 'colour' I wanted; from a dark, mellow sound, that had no attack to a bright in-your-face funk slap sound. And that's what I want from my sax - a basic sound where all of the frequencies, from the very low to the very high, are all present so that I can change style to suit the song rather than have to change mp or sax.

Sadly, you don't really hear that bass sound on the track I posted the other day as the strings are over fifteen years old and have lost almost all of their tone, and I wasn't using my old amp or speakers.

As for the sax, if the tones/frequencies aren't there, for whatever reason, then it doesn't matter what you do, either as a player or with effects in the studio, you'll never get them back. So, I suppose I basically want to hear all of the colours a sax has to offer with a slight bias towards lighter shades.

And yes, the players I seem to listen to the most are all alto players. If I knew then what I know now I probably would have bought an alto instead, but I didn't so this tenor is going to sound like what's in my head even if it doesn't seem possible. 😉

 

[thomsax]

I don't know any players who are growling all the time!? But some players have a more natural "growl" sound. The design of the mouthpice helps us to growl. You can growl on a "no-baffle" hardrubber mouthpiece. But it's easier to growl on a high baffle mpc. To get it really nasty you growl and add the flutter tone/tongue or vibrato/"great shake". Maybe I'm off topic?

 

[Colin the Bear]

Different strokes for different folks. That sounded like somebody deflating a stubborn air bed through my speakers. They did both sound similar though.

 

[thomsax]

Different strokes for different folks. That sounded like somebody deflating a stubborn air bed through my speakers. They did both sound similar though.

Thanks. We love to make noise!

 

[Veggie Dave]

I've ordered a Rico M7 that will be here tomorrow, so we'll see what difference that makes. As for that version of The Chicken, that's pretty damn raucous! I bet it was a hell of a gig. It's amazing how different a song can sound depending on who plays it, too. Jaco Pastorius does the Chicken on 'Invitation' that's also a superb version, although a little different to this one. 😉

Ooh, found a video of him playing:

 

[Jules]

I don't know any players who are growling all the time!?

Earl Bostic?

 

[Nick Wyver]

or Gato Barbieri.

 

[Veggie Dave]

Every day's a learning day.

There's a section in the song I posted the other day that descends B G# F# D - then ascends E G B A, where I growled the whole thing. Quite honestly it lacks any sort of subtlety and I really don't like it in that context. But tonight I tongued every note without growling and that added a light growl and accent to each note without being over powering.

I realise 99% of you probably know this already, but it's not something I've seen mentioned before in any of the other growling threads.

 

[thomsax]

Maybe Earl Bostic or Gato Barbieri growled all the time. I don't know?

A heavy growler is Ron Dziubla, LA, but he he is not growling all the time! He is on a Dukoff D chamber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S405d2efGTo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cghix-N9LWU

 

[Veggie Dave]

The Rico 7M turned up today and it confirmed that the sound I was trying to describe is indeed a bright sax rather than a growl.

Jumping from a Yamaha 7C to a Rico M7 is going to take a bit of getting used to, but I see it as a huge step towards that illusive sound in my head. Thanks everyone, this thread has been very, very helpful. And a little extra kudos to Colin for suggesting the Rico.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Now start listening to some Tenor players. lol

http://youtu.be/XD4xGt3VjhQ

 

[thomsax]

Jr Walker was a great player. Maybe he also was a growler? But he had great altissimo and nice flutter tone.
Listen to Andrew Clark(Dukoff D-8, MH LaVoz ) playing in Jr Walker style. Andrew did a mastercladss playing in the styles of Jr Walker, King Curtis and Clarence Clemons.
https://soundcloud.com/thomsax/jrfluttertone
Lenny Pickett (BergLarsen130/0, Vandoren#3 bass clarinet reed) is one of best playing in this style!? A short sample:

View: https://soundcloud.com/thomsax/lpgsolo


Back to growl. Andrew Clark is playing three different ways to growl: "Down low" and "moved up" and the last is the "head method" (like a opera singer):

View: https://soundcloud.com/thomsax/threegrowlstwo


@Veggie Dave; You sounds great on your soundclips. Growl all the time or less, add fluttertone, hardubber, plastic or metal mpc, low or high baffle ... keep on honking! I'm looking forward to hear more from you.

 

[Veggie Dave]

Andrew did a mastercladss playing in the styles of Jr Walker, King Curtis and Clarence Clemons.
https://soundcloud.com/thomsax/jrfluttertone

I've tried fluttering and managed it once or twice but I've never been able to picture it in a song so not really paid much attention to it. I think I may have to practise it a bit more now. 😉

 

[MrXesX]

So, basically, I'm playing along to Maneater by Hall and Oates, trying to replicate the saxophone part. I've learnt all the tones I need, without problems and what not, but the noise used on the higher frequencies, (Most noticable in the higher octave of the solo and in the higher D and E tones), the sort of growling noise, seems impossible to make, I've learnt the basics of growling with a saxophone. I don't know weither to surrender this to me having an alto sax instead of a tenor, but I've clearly seen people playing this with an alto and creating that noise, any input on what I could do? This is the noise I'm looking for

View: https://youtu.be/yRYFKcMa_Ek?t=2m58s


I might just be an idiot here, but eh, 'The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.'.

Whilst I'm at it, I could aswell ask, how do I reach a high A on an alto sax? I understand it takes practice, but I just don't understand at all to be honest.