Playing the saxophone How to growl on saxophone - please help find examples

Examples of the saxophone growl​

Growling is one of the most popular effects on the saxophone. We often associate it with rock and pop playing but it's also a very legitimate technique in jazz, used by the greats from Ben Webster through to David Sanborn.

Before I go on the describe it, here are some audio examples:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGrg57RbqBE

Although we think of the saxophone growl as an effect, it can be applied with different intensities. You can use it here or there on one or two notes or add it quite extensively. It's up to your taste and judgment how you use it. It can be anything from a slight edge to brighten the tone to a full on snarling roaring tiger growl.

It is a sort of equivalent to a guitarist using a distortion pedal.

How do you growl on a saxophone​

First of all one of the misconception is that you growl while playing. That is not likely to work. Another misconception is that you roll your RRRs. Again, that won't work either - BUT - it does give a different but related effect: flutter tongue.

To growl you simply sing, or rather hum, while you are playing. It's not actually possible to sing of course because there is a mouthpiece in the way, but humming (which takes place in your throat) works well.

Which note to hum?​

That's the $1000 question. Some people say to hum the same note as you are playing but slightly (or very) out of tune, others to hum a specific harmony or interval relative to the note you are playing.

I have found that either of those may work, but nobody I know of has yet come up with an explanation of how out of tune or which interval. The way it works is that the note (being out of tune or different to the one you are playing) causes interference with the sound wave of the saxophone to cause the distortion. It may be that not all saxophone notes growl based on the same amount of pitch variation or harmony in the hum.

My preferred method of learning is via a sort of subconscious process of trial and error. Trying to sing along, whether out of tune, or in harmony is just too difficult a process.

So try this:

• Play a note on the saxophone
• While playing, hum any note and while keeping on the same saxophone note, vary the pitch of your hum
• Listen carefully to the note and as your hum varies and note when it causes the tonal interference - and the resulting growl.
• Play that note again (asa long note) while humming that same pitch if possible
• Repeat a few times and then move on to a different and do the same process over again

This way you will gradually find you automatically hum whatever note works best for each note or series of notes you are playing.

Another very quick example...Happy growling evybody!



PS: We are pleased to also bring you a a soundcloud tutorial from our very own cafe member Taz.

https://soundcloud.com/taz-16%2Fgrowl-tutorial

View: https://soundcloud.com/taz-16/growl-tutorial

 

[eb424]

I guess i just don't understand what he means by I am working harder..My mate says he uses a lot more breath on my sax and its harder work than the z.....now I am all for an easier life ( to a point I do practice at least an hour a day)...but I would like to address this point. From my perspective if you took the neck of a sax they would all be the same, I can understand different mechanisms key heights speed of play etc but nothing that would create resistance. I am also working from the assumption that more resistance equals deeper tone...it is said that resistance is 80% mouthpiece and 20% neck. The mouthpiece I use is very easy blowing (TW durga).....would a custom neck change anything..

 

[jazzdoh]

I don't know the reasons why some horns are more resistant than others but I know when I am working harder on a particular horn against another.
Notes are harder to form and I am just using more air than I would be on other horns.
I remember trying a friends mark VI alto many years ago against mine and it was very resistant to point it was so much harder to play.
Now you should be able to tell if your horn is hard work, it may be mouthpiece or reeds, but if you are able to play your setup easily then do that and commit to it, because changing it will cost you big time and you maybe no better off after spending the money, you also get some players that are brand snobs and will always take an opportunity to knock another brand

 

[lydian]

Resistance is mainly caused by leaks.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Often when comparing horns, what you're comparing is the state of the regulation.

Also to a lesser extent a different horn may not suit your regular mouthpiece/reed set up.

 

[eb424]

I don't know the reasons why some horns are more resistant than others but I know when I am working harder on a particular horn against another.
Notes are harder to form and I am just using more air than I would be on other horns.
I remember trying a friends mark VI alto many years ago against mine and it was very resistant to point it was so much harder to play.
Now you should be able to tell if your horn is hard work, it may be mouthpiece or reeds, but if you are able to play your setup easily then do that and commit to it, because changing it will cost you big time and you maybe no better off after spending the money, you also get some players that are brand snobs and will always take an opportunity to knock another brand

TBF I am fed up changing things...kind of like the raw but when I played the z it did seem easier all round..still came away with the raw so I guess its just horses for courses...

 

[eb424]

Often when comparing horns, what you're comparing is the state of the regulation.

Also to a lesser extent a different horn may not suit your regular mouthpiece/reed set up.

TBF @Colin the Bear i took it back to Liverpool and its set up a treat. The springs were lightened and it plays fine all checked for leaks. It / I sometimes have an issue playing from bottom D to other notes. I wonder if its mouthpiece choice. The TWs play well easy high notes on the Durga and gaia. I play with a rovner style lig as the lig that came with it doesnt hold legeres very well. The curved part of the piece is only as long as the lig..no room for adjustment. Maybe ill try the hr pieces they seem to hold more air. I dont think it will have made a difference but i stupidly used the wrong swab and got the body swab stuck in the neck. Had to get it out with a metal object..there is a crease on the outside of the neck could it have damaged the bore..

 

[jazzdoh]

Resistance is mainly caused by leaks.

Yes I understand this but the Mark VI I had tried had just been to the tech's to try to sort out why it wasn't playing well and everything was in regulation, I guess some horn's are what you call "dogs" and this was probably one of them.

 

[StockholmSax]

Pick a horn - any horn - and commit.

Your ability to express yourself comes with time spent with a horn in your face. And no, it's not just the quantity of time, but its quality. Always listen to what comes out of your horn. Does it match what you hear BEFORE you blow? No? What can you do to change that? Adjustments in embouchure, airstream, tongue position, support, etc. The sound comes from YOU.

Such a good answer. The first sentence could apply to many questions on here.
Why are we so infatuated with gear when it makes little difference?
You should here them down the golf club. " this new club this new ball blah blah blah"
Playing any better are you?.... Erm no not really but it looks nice.

 

[eb424]

Such a good answer. The first sentence could apply to many questions on here.
Why are we so infatuated with gear when it makes little difference?
You should here them down the golf club. " this new club this new ball blah blah blah"
Playing any better are you?.... Erm no not really but it looks nice.

TBF I think the gear makes more difference than golf clubs and balls (not being argumentative)..For example is it the sax, the z is meant to be so easy blowing; are the mouthpieces harder to blow as they hold less air than the HR pieces (being half the size). I personally upped reed size to legere 2.5 as the high notes flow easier on the Gaia I was playing a 2.25, there are so many variables. I guess a golfer would argue the same is iron better than composite should I have kept my old woods, is a big headed club easier to hit...with me i don't know having Asthma whether thats impacting at the mo, I love the TJ but it may be just harder to blow, I still put the resistance down to the lovely tone. TBF I have resisted the urge to play the 10m since I have had the Raw, it has taken over a year to get to know the sax fully and find out all of my strengths and weaknesses playing it. I would like to be the best player I can and need the gear to facillitate my strengths and weaknesses..

 

[StockholmSax]

TBF I think the gear makes more difference than golf clubs and balls (not being argumentative)..For example is it the sax, the z is meant to be so easy blowing; are the mouthpieces harder to blow as they hold less air than the HR pieces (being half the size). I personally upped reed size to legere 2.5 as the high notes flow easier on the Gaia I was playing a 2.25, there are so many variables. I guess a golfer would argue the same is iron better than composite should I have kept my old woods, is a big headed club easier to hit...with me i don't know having Asthma whether thats impacting at the mo, I love the TJ but it may be just harder to blow, I still put the resistance down to the lovely tone. TBF I have resisted the urge to play the 10m since I have had the Raw, it has taken over a year to get to know the sax fully and find out all of my strengths and weaknesses playing it. I would like to be the best player I can and need the gear to facillitate my strengths and weaknesses..

Fair enough, the golf comparison was maybe an exaduration.
Mouthpieces and reeds definitely make a difference. You should make every effort to find one that suits you and the sax.
As for saxophones, less than 5% difference to the sound? And most of that difference is produced in the neck.
Any saxophone that's not leaking should be easy blowing, naw.?

 

[eb424]

Fair enough, the golf comparison was maybe an exaduration.
Mouthpieces and reeds definitely make a difference. You should make every effort to find one that suits you and the sax.
As for saxophones, less than 5% difference to the sound? And most of that difference is produced in the neck.
Any saxophone that's not leaking should be easy blowing, naw.?

The Raw is leak free maybe the neck is different there is a lot of difference in the resistance and ease of blowing..I completely agree that consistancy is key but ( without knowledge) cant see how without an element of resistance can have a deep tone.. i guess all saxes are different and you have to find your way..wish TJ would follow yams suit and have a selection of necks...

 

[mizmar]

IMHO this is one of those questions where folks talk across eachother.
In many walks of life highly skilled people can make very basic kit work beautifully and can be stratospheric on good kit; while amateurs can be defeated by the smallest flaw in the equipment.... And everything in-between.

Eg: In my more involved biking days, there was a chap who rode a basic CB500 and would reliably be far ahead on any road other than motorways (I say "rode". he didn't ride, he flowed)... While the more average riders would be looking for better pipes, carb settings, etc.

Take leaks. Someone with solid air, good ears etc can, seems to me, play right past small leaks. They'd be happier if leaks where gone, but the listener might well not notice the difference. I'm sure there are all kinds of quirks and variables some folks can adjust to while others will trip up. And there are top notch players who would just prefer things to be thus-and-so. That's how, in part, I understand Dr Gs post.

 

[Dr G]

TBF I have resisted the urge to play the 10m since I have had the Raw, it has taken over a year to get to know the sax fully and find out all of my strengths and weaknesses playing it. I would like to be the best player I can and need the gear to facillitate my strengths and weaknesses..

You make a good argument for committing to a setup.

FWIW, I value tone foremost, ergos, and response. Get the horn leak free, then dial in the rest with choice of reeds and mouthpiece. Call it “resistance” if you must, but I’ll wager a scone that it’s more in your head than your horn. Sure, if you take your favorite mouthpiece on your Conn, and put it on another horn, it will play different - that’s my point. The response of your setup is a composite of reeds, mouthpiece, horn, and you - change any of them, and you need to sort out the new composite.

But if affirmation for your gear quest is what you want, then: Yes, you need a new __________________. I don’t see how you can make any progress without it.

 

[Jimmymack]

Resistance is futile, sorry I had to say it, but you like the horn, you like the tone and it plays so I would just play it and let problems diminish over time as you get used to it and get better. I have two horns and one is more resistant than the other, the one with most resistance has the better tone to my ears, I don’t know if there is any connection. For me the most resistance comes from the reed, some I struggle with, others just sing. The tone I get from my setup pleases me and I spent a lot of time and money finding the right reed and I put up with, or work, the ones giving me trouble or put them aside. The mouthpiece could be an issue, but the same thing applies, I have mouthpieces that play easier but again my main piece is the one that gives me the sound I’m happiest with.

 

[eb424]

You make a good argument for committing to a setup.

FWIW, I value tone foremost, ergos, and response. Get the horn leak free, then dial in the rest with choice of reeds and mouthpiece. Call it “resistance” if you must, but I’ll wager a scone that it’s more in your head than your horn. Sure, if you take your favorite mouthpiece on your Conn, and put it on another horn, it will play different - that’s my point. The response of your setup is a composite of reeds, mouthpiece, horn, and you - change any of them, and you need to sort out the new composite.

But if affirmation for your gear quest is what you want, then: Yes, you need a new __________________. I don’t see how you can make any progress without it.

LOL Affirmation not required @Dr G ...I am on here because I am doing my darndest not to change my set up.Its taken a while to get there...Trouble is the asthma is going to get worse and I dont want to fight a saxophone i want one that accompanies me on the journey...it was my mate when he tried my horn who said it takes more breath and i am working harder... and after trying the custom Z I would have to agree its such an easy blowing sax...thing is we play long tunes me and Bobby Mcgee and I am struggling to get right the way through..i know long notes...

 

[Jimmymack]

I think you have done a comparison and if you found the other one noticeably easier to play then you should maybe switch. Only you know how much difference it made but if you won’t be able to increase your air, and as you say, it’s likely to get harder, then an easier blowing horn obviously should be considered. I haven’t played a Yamaha in a long time but I remember it as being much easier than most other horns I’ve played, it was a YTS62. You don’t need to shell out for a Z to get a good Yamaha. Most of the advice on here has assumed you just needed to work at it but a condition that restricts your ability to blow is another matter altogether.

 

[jbtsax]

I don't know the reasons why some horns are more resistant than others but I know when I am working harder on a particular horn against another.

One factor that comes into play is the "harmonicity" of the instrument. That means how close the harmonics of a note are to whole number multiples of the frequency of the fundamental. Benade writes that when there is poor alignment of these harmonics, the musician is required to exert more effort in his playing to provide a combination of increased blowing pressure and greater embouchure tension. These instruments are described as "hard blowing" and are physically tiring to play. Studies have found that the harmonicity of various Selmer models have improved from one model to the next as the design and construction have improved since the Modele 26.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Which could also be down to a horn mouthpiece mis match.

 

[eb424]

Which could also be down to a horn mouthpiece mis match.

Ive tried so many tho... 🙂 baffled seems an easier blowi for me...would less air go through a metal piece than a larger hr piece...

 

[lydian]

Ive tried so many tho... 🙂 baffled seems an easier blowi for me...would less air go through a metal piece than a larger hr piece...

Too many variables to say for sure. An open piece with soft reed could take less air than a closed piece and hard reed. As I said before, leaks also cause more resistance. Table could also be off, ligature might not fit correctly, etc. You need a tech or experienced player to evaluate. There's no way we can do it without seeing and hearing it.

I don't believe in horn/mouthpiece "match", except with very specific, very old vintage horns. I believe in player/mouthpiece "match". But I seem to be in the minority with that view.

Sounds like your heart is set on the 82z, so may as well just be done with it and get what you want. We haven't been able to talk you out of it so far.