Tech/maintenance Dented sax on day 1

[Pete Thomas]

When you move the metal back into place there's just a little bit more of it (in terms of surface area) than there was before - so you usually end up with what's called a 'witness mark'.

This makes me think that it's really only worth doing on an old horn or a more significant dent than this one if new. In this case, seeing as the rest of the horn is pristine, even the teeniest "witness mark" is going to stand out. Any tech who says they can do an invisible repair should put their money where their mouth is and guarantee it is actually invisible.

I doubt you will find one who will take that bet.

 

[Stephen Howard]

This makes me think that it's really only worth doing on an old horn or a more significant dent than this one if new. In this case, seeing as the rest of the horn is pristine, even the teeniest "witness mark" is going to stand out. Any tech who says they can do an invisible repair should put their money where their mouth is and guarantee it is actually invisible.

I doubt you will find one who will take that bet.

I've done a few 🙂
It's a bit like invisible soldering - it depends sooooo much on the horn and where the damage is....and a healthy dose of luck. And you usually only get one shot at it.
If I think there's half a chance I might be able to carry it off I always tell the client that I'm gonna go for it - but can't guarantee it. It's nice when it all works out though.

 

[ghostler]

Look to the positive. After the first door dent caused by another careless driver from a car parked next to you, the next dent is not as painful.

This is why I like to buy used. It comes pre-dented so I don't mind, especially with the money I saved over new.

 

[JayeNM]

Marketing. KHS that owns the brand is huge. They also own Jupiter along with other top brands.

Methinks it's the way they LOOK, aesthetically. I mean they LOOK heavy duty, rugged...more so than the typical black-tubing chinese jobbers everywhere. But they just, over the years, have insisted on maintaining that design which has a tendency to kick up the lower fork very easily.
FWIW, their mic stands are no better...

 

[ghostler]

This makes me think that it's really only worth doing on an old horn or a more significant dent than this one if new. In this case, seeing as the rest of the horn is pristine, even the teeniest "witness mark" is going to stand out.

Pete, in my humble experience, I would have to agree with you.

I used the rounded portion of a large box end wrench, whose box end was small enough to navigate through the lower E pad hole, to carefully "burnish" out the dent from the inside, located on the back side of my Venus tenor. I was able to remove the dent but in tool movement there was some crazing of the clear lacquer finish around around the dent removal area.

SOAPBOX: For one, I am a "shade tree" repairer and not a seasoned pro.

But, my observations indicate that unless one is willing to expend additional money to not only have the dent removed but a touch up of the finish, the final result with dent removed even with touch up, may be difficult to achieve a perfect factory like finish without more significant work.

In doing autobody repair and painting (I have repainted a half dozen cars and 2 motorcycles), end up having to repaint a whole panel to get a "perfect" match.

A decade ago, I bumped out a dent in a front metal fender of a friend's Yamaha V-Star 1300 tourer. He had placed a tool bag in front of the front fork, but it got wedged between the fork tree and fender below whilst hitting a road pothole, denting it. I successfully removed the dent but had to repaint the entire fender for a "perfect" match. When done, one could not tell it had ever been dented.

This is why I mentioned that for such minor dents, it is sometimes better to just live with it, and when time to do some major work like replace all pads, springs and bumpers, then do the dent repairs where the tech has a clear shot with all keywork already removed.

Just consider it a wounded but unflinched veteran of saxophone warfare.

 

[PigSquealer]

Methinks it's the way they LOOK, aesthetically. I mean they LOOK heavy duty, rugged...more so than the typical black-tubing chinese jobbers everywhere. But they just, over the years, have insisted on maintaining that design which has a tendency to kick up the lower fork very easily.
FWIW, their mic stands are no better...

Right out of the box I tighten the upper and lower forks. Loose enough to move with force, but not loose enough that brushing the bow against will flip them up.

 

[ghostler]

I had a brand new sax that was less than a week old. Left my seat in the community band to use the water closet. Came back, it had slid off my metal chair onto the floor, putting a crease in a portion opposite behind the lower E key, bent a few keys. Now I bring a sax stand with me to rehearsal.

This was my comment in Post #10 of Nov 28, 2024. A week ago, I dropped off my Venus Tenor to Tarpley Music Store, got it back today. They did a very professional job of removing the dent. Straighten keys, level pads + dent fix was only $118.73.

 

[Canuck_alto]

Glad to hear your repair went so well.

I'm not familiar with the Venus brand. Can you tell me more about it?

 

[ghostler]

I'm not familiar with the Venus brand. Can you tell me more about it?

Did your Glory sax come with the white gloves, tuner and reeds? (Just joshing.) 😉

Venus was a Chinese brand available about 15 years ago, there are a few still being sold new, basically clearing out old stock. I bought my Venus sop in 2012 ($219 US), my tenor in 2016 (about $450 US).

14 years ago, I was researching for lower costs saxes. Compared with others, it had very favourable comments. They play like a good intermediate. Around 2014, I bought a Venus Eb Sopranino plastic Clarinet for under $100, even had the "gold" keys. It is of beginner quality intonation wise, but keys are solid, a hoot to play jazz with.

(Actually, I have heard that Cellios overall are satisfactory for beginner players, especially for parents that don't want to invest a lot of money until their child is a serious music learner. I purchased a used Medini alto in new condition and in black nickel plate (not paint!) for half the price of new from the Amazon Cellio dealer, even came with the white gloves, reeds, tuner, probably a demonstrator or customer return for half price. Gifted it to a family with a serious musician on trumpet who wanted to play reed. Brands, YMMV - Your Mileage (KM) May Vary.)

I played my Venus straight soprano sax so much that I completely wore out the case. Zipper mechanism failed. I bought 2 generic plastic zip repair kits, used for another year. They failed, bought a better quality metal zip repair kit. Used it another 6 - 8 months. Finally the zipper track failed. Now sits in a quality Protec case.

My Venus tenor sax case will probably be next, now looking a little ratty.

 

[Canuck_alto]

Actually, funny enough the only thing missing was the white gloves.

That Venus brand sounds pretty cool. I'm all about the off brand horns.

 

[davidk]

Gibson and Fender guitars charge more for a brand new guitar if they dent it and distress the lacquer. They call it a relic finish. It’s not for me, I like to earn the blemishes on my instruments through gigging and hard practice.

 

[ghostler]

Gibson and Fender guitars charge more for a brand new guitar if they dent it and distress the lacquer. They call it a relic finish. It’s not for me, I like to earn the blemishes on my instruments through gigging and hard practice.

That's like paying more quid for an unlacquered sax than the lacquered one.

 

[turf3]

That tiny ding in the OP isn't going to come out - if he can't feel it inside, there's no way to push it out. That's a surface ding - the metal's been made ever so slightly thinner at that point. There's no practical way to reverse it.

Live with it.

 

[Canuck_alto]

Gibson and Fender guitars charge more for a brand new guitar if they dent it and distress the lacquer. They call it a relic finish. It’s not for me, I like to earn the blemishes on my instruments through gigging and hard practice.

And they are expensive as heck.

 

[Jimmymack]

It’s like pre-stressed jeans, they charge twice the price for something already half worn out. I usually throw jeans away when they reach that point.

 

[turf3]

Methinks it's the way they LOOK, aesthetically. I mean they LOOK heavy duty, rugged...more so than the typical black-tubing chinese jobbers everywhere. But they just, over the years, have insisted on maintaining that design which has a tendency to kick up the lower fork very easily.
FWIW, their mic stands are no better...

I either tighten the screw or wrap some electrical tape around the thing to hold it down.

 

[BUMNOTE]

I have 3 Hercules stands,for alto,tenor,baritone,no problem at all with them,i find them very good.