Saxophone beginners Ceci n'est pas une pipe

[6441]

To clarify, I know the Bb fingering with the side key and I know the octave E, F and F# uses one. My question is specific but relating info would be interesting, too. I realise there's a page on TTS about the Bb fingerings and read that a while back.

To play upper D, Bb C, the intuitive way is with the bis key. I feel Bb C sounds like a better transition played as L1L2 with the side key, then releasing L1 and the side key. The D makes this more awkward than coming from B, where the side key is normally the standard use. Comments?

 

[Jonesy]

I would use the bis key for Bb and then bis key + the middle side key to play the C. Eliminates the 'finger waggle' between Bb and C.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Do you mean going into the middle register or up to palm key D etc?

Either way, it’s an area that is quite a hurdle in getting clean fingers/transitions.

Bb to C: you can simply remove LH1 of a side Bb fingering so long as not going to anything other than back to Bb again or a C#. It’s a trill Bb to C fingering really and is not best getting used to - problems down the road.

A good exercise is stuff like B C D C B over the break. Substitute Bb, C#, D# whatever for working different fingers.

 

[Pete Effamy]

I would use the bis key for Bb and then bis key + the middle side key to play the C. Eliminates the 'finger waggle' between Bb and C.

Sliding up and off the bus key? If you can do it well that’s all there is to it, but I wouldn’t recommend it.

 

[6441]

I would use the bis key for Bb and then bis key + the middle side key to play the C. Eliminates the 'finger waggle' between Bb and C.

That works physically, but the bis + C side is pretty flat. Is this a "kosher" fingering or a creative one? I have to pull hard to get the C in tune.

@Pete Effamy the full line is from octave Bb G F D Bb C the Bb is almost a grace note to the C. At my level of physical training, I can't get the LH1 bis then LH2 to sound non-flappy.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Palm D, to Bb then C: many bunch or splay out their fingers when going to palm D but this takes them a long way from the front key positions so keep an eye on that. There will be some movement out of position but try and make the movement to palm D a hand movement more than a wrist action to bring the palm inwards. Try to keep fingers relatively bent around the front and not pointing skyward (this is probably a natural occurrence).

the amount of travel from palm to D key is why players built up the key.

 

[Pete Effamy]

That works physically, but the bis + C side is pretty flat. Is this a "kosher" fingering or a creative one? I have to pull hard to get the C in tune.

@Pete Effamy the full line is from octave Bb G F D Bb C the Bb is almost a grace note to the C. At my level of physical training, I can't get the LH1 bis then LH2 to sound non-flappy.

Yes there’s the rub. It’s a big one to smooth out.

 

[6441]

Palm D, to Bb then C:
the amount of travel from palm to D key is why players built up the key.

I'm confused here. The side keys are named Bb C and E on the page from Art of Saxophone Playing. In fact I have trouble remembering the note names for all the RH side keys. Palm keys are the upper ones for high D, Eb, E? I'm only barely able to name the keys non-cencert after almost two years! To me I call the note I wanna hear 🙂 When you play with a bunch of sax players, you call the changes out in sax talk, right? I already get messed up have to call them out in French where 'C' means 'B' (si).

Ok, upon more thought you're explaining that it's a PITA to play high D down to Bb then up to C. Looks like all of these are good to practice!

 

[Pete Effamy]

Sorry I might have been befuddled without music script (sorry).
No, I never talk concert when speaking to sax players, unless in a section with the Bb and Eb going on. My trumpet mate always talks concert and I'm always cross-questioning.

 

[6441]

Sorry I might have been befuddled without music script (sorry).

Pretty much this, with a little soul flourish after the C and back up to it.

Mostly, Bb bis to C, I can do it sometimes without the flap, but I was wondering if the other solutions were better. Fact is, I don't know all the possibilities and most teachers won't tell you unless you specifically ask.<sup>1

1</sup> Wanting to insert the obvious allusion to "but were afraid to ask", but I won't.)

 

[GCinCT]

I know there are fingerings that are considered "proper" but I think whatever works for the individual is best. I almost never use the side keys at all. I am very comfortable with the bis key and I even use it to go from B to Bb most of the time as well. My flap is pretty smooth. I don't use the side F# often either. Obviously, whatever fingerings you use, practice is the key, but I would try various combinations and see what feels best to you.

Disclaimer: I am not a teacher, nor a professional, and barely competent. My advice should be taken with several very large grains of salt.

 

[6441]

I'm totally with you, but always wonder if there's a better way. The side f# is important in certain keys, like B minor.

 

[GCinCT]

I'm totally with you, but always wonder if there's a better way. The side f# is important in certain keys, like B minor.

It's always a good idea to search for a better way.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Pretty much this, with a little soul flourish after the C and back up to it.
View attachment 13489
Mostly, Bb bis to C, I can do it sometimes without the flap, but I was wondering if the other solutions were better. Fact is, I don't know all the possibilities and most teachers won't tell you unless you specifically ask.<sup>1

1</sup> Wanting to insert the obvious allusion to "but were afraid to ask", but I won't.)

And then there was light! Cheers Randy. Yep, I'd use bis for this but can use either because of my many years penance on clarinet (clarinet does not have a bis equivalent).

 

[Pete Effamy]

The side f#

Forked (or chromatic F#) ? (LH 123, RH1 and RH3) Top line of stave and bottom space F#?

 

[Pete Effamy]

If so, it's meant as a chromatic F to F# solution, aiding the 1st finger to 2nd finger switch.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Sorry for all my edits on previous posts. My brain is not functioning well but my stomach is heartily attired with a full English breakfast and cappuccino and musings on Morgan 3-Wheelers with a mate...

Edit:

A Morgan 3 Wheeler Is The Most Fun You Can Have At Any Speed

 

[Pete Effamy]

I am not a teacher, nor a professional

Quite positive in my view! 😉

 

[Pete Effamy]

Pretty much this, with a little soul flourish after the C and back up to it.
View attachment 13489
Mostly, Bb bis to C, I can do it sometimes without the flap, but I was wondering if the other solutions were better. Fact is, I don't know all the possibilities and most teachers won't tell you unless you specifically ask.<sup>1

1</sup> Wanting to insert the obvious allusion to "but were afraid to ask", but I won't.)

Presuming that the B's are Bb, it's a very well-used sax lick - more-so if a Db.

 

[GCinCT]

Presuming that the B's are Bb, it's a very well-used sax lick - more-so if a Db.

I may have to "borrow" it then.