CafeSaxophone Forum

Tenor Viol
Last reply · posted in Articles on Cafesaxophone
So, you want to play in a band… and why you should

Band
One of the best things that you can do as a musician – whether you are very experienced or an absolute beginner – is to play together with other people. There are many reasons why you should do it. Unfortunately, too many people shy away from it thinking that they’re not good enough, or that they will let themselves down, or that they will embarrass themselves, and so on. In this post I am going to talk about what’s involved and what to expect when joining a group. I’ve made this general as I’m a string player (cello and viol) as well as a sax player, but the principles apply to all.

The first myth to bust is: am I good enough? The answer is yes you are, but obviously you have to find the right group to play with. There are community groups, bands, and orchestras that cater for all levels of playing and for different styles and genres of music. One community group that I am familiar with runs three orchestras on a Saturday morning. Being a community orchestra, the welcome all abilities and all instruments. One is aimed at absolute beginners and geared at getting people used to playing with others and working with a conductor. This group has a very wide age range from about 8 to one that is over 90. The second group is the intermediate group and has a wide range of people including youngsters, adult learners and adult late returners, or second instrument players. This is a large group of around 40 to 50 players. The third group is more experienced. It contains a few older youngsters (i.e. teens) who tend to be very good players, plus adult late returners or more experienced learners.

The area where it tends to be harder to find an outlet is for the smaller ensembles and groups such as string quartets. If you’re a viola player you can probably find an opportunity easily enough, but it is much harder if you’re a cellist or violinist. The challenge here is that for accessible works by say Haydn, Mozart or Beethoven, the first violin part is significantly more difficult than the other parts. There are ways round this though. String players should think about joining string orchestras. First of all this will provide an opportunity to play. Second, playing in a string orchestra is very different to playing in a symphony orchestra and it will help with relevant technique. Third, you will be in an environment with other string players and that will provide other opportunities.

If you are a wind player, then similarly joining a wind band will be useful. These can be anything from small groups of six or seven players, right up to symphonic wind bands of seventy or more players. Again groups such as the classical wind quintet, or big bands are harder to find because of the narrow definition of instrument requirements. You are more likely to find an opportunity by being a member of a larger ensemble. Conventional orchestras can be difficult for wind players as a classical orchestra only needs 2 flutes, 2 clarinets etc. Community groups don’t usually have the same limitation on numbers. You do get ‘choirs’ of wind instruments from the same family such as clarinet choirs (which will have bass, alto, Bb, C, Eb etc. instruments). You also get sax choirs and sax ensembles (as indeed we do within the Café).

OK, so you’ve found a group, what do you do? Well the first thing is don’t panic. Everyone makes mistakes, so don’t be afraid of making them. Wrong notes are not that important – once they’re gone, they’re gone, so no use fretting over them. What is more important is timing and rhythm. No one will notice if you play a wrong note at the right time, but the right note at the wrong time will be a little more evident. Don’t feel obliged to put every note in. If you have a passage of quavers or semi-quavers and it feels too much then an option is to just play the first note of the bar, or the first note in each group, or maybe the notes on each beat and work up to adding more. The important thing is to keep your place in the music and to not get behind.

If you’ve never played with others then it will feel strange. One aspect will be that with a group the tempo will be consistent and you may discover that you’re not used to that. Other things that may seem odd are that you may be playing a piece you know but your part is not playing the tune, but rather a harmony part. It can be very tempting to play your part in the style of the tune, which is probably wrong!

The other thing that can be confusing is working with a conductor. Now it has to be said that they vary a great deal, but generally they are there to help you, in particular with keeping in time. You need to have your music stand at a height such that you can catch the conductor’s beat with peripheral vision. If you are not familiar with how a conductor beats the various time signatures, then have a Google for a suitable wiki.

So, you’ve found a group, what should you do for the first rehearsal? Apart from the obvious of making sure that you know where the venue is, make sure you allow at least 15 minutes before the scheduled start time, possibly more, on the first visit. The reason is you will need to sort out parking and finding the room. You will need to allow time to introduce yourself, find out where you’re sitting, set-up your music stand and instrument, tune, and get music. In most groups the music director / conductor will probably have a few words with you during the tea beak or at the end. Things that you need to remember to bring: music stand, soft 2B pencil and eraser, and if you wear them – glasses. If the MD gives directions during the rehearsal about say changes to dynamic markings or articulation, then make sure you add them in soft pencil to your part. It can be embarrassing to come in on a strong FF because you forgot it had been change to mf…

Most groups and ensembles will welcome having a new member, so you are likely to be very welcome. It is common practice for groups to allow a ‘getting to know you’ period, often one whole term. This is to enable you to see if you like the group and are comfortable and also for them to be sure that you fit in with them. Whether or not a subscription is payable in this initial period will vary from group to group.

I sometimes get asked why groups have to charge. The short answer is few things are free and typical costs include rehearsal venue hire, the venue may require the group hold PLI (Public Liability Insurance), they may have to pay the music director, they will probably have to hire or purchase music. Some areas are fortunate to have more enlightened local authorities and such things are subsidised in part.

Finding groups is the main challenge. These days, the internet search engine is your friend. There are dedicated sites such as www.amateurorchestras.org.uk which list groups by genre and location. Just be aware that not all groups are listed and some groups are not sufficiently ‘tech savvy’ to have an online presence, but that is becoming very uncommon. Don’t rule out the notice board in music shops or asking the staff there.

I hope this short overview might encourage you to take the plunge in joining a group. Do post about how you get on. Since I’ve been on the committee of many groups and I’ve been chairman of a few, feel free to ask questions, which I will try to answer if I can.
41 Replies · 15075 views
Andy Hornblower
Last reply · posted in Saxophones: gear, playing, repair, impro

Saxophones  C Melody Saxophones

I've been interested in C Melody saxes, for a while.

Apparently, they were quite common in the 1920s-30s, and the general concensus seems to be that the designs got better as time went on. Earlier models were often made in High Pitch (a tuning system that predates using A=440Hz), and should be avoided, unless you want to accompany a Highland bagpipe player.

From what little research I've done, it seems Conn made some of the better sounding ones, and their later models were improvements over the earlier ones. The ones with a "straight" neck, similar to an alto, are supposed to be good. Personally, I don't really like the S shaped neck on a tenor.

Anyway, here's one I've asked about recently. I've posted a couple of these pictures in Ads's review discussion thread of the Sakkusu C Melody sax, but here's all I have.

This is a 1924/1925 Conn C Melody, currently for sale at the Trevor Jones shop in Bristol. It's in low pitch, has had a partial repad, and is ready to play.



Bristol is a bit far for me to visit so I asked if they could send me photos, particularly of the hand positions, because the ergonomics are a bit different on these old saxes, and C melody saxes in particular.

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Ermm... there seems to be a 2 file upload limit. Hopefully, that's per post

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The thumb rest is apparently soldered on, so can't be adjusted easily, but the position looks good for reaching the right side trill keys (Bb/C/high E). This seems to be an issue on the Sakkusu / Thoman C Melody (see https://cafesaxophone.com/threads/sakkusu-c-melody-saxophone-review.13705/Ads's Sakkusu C Melody review[/URL])

The "L" stamped below the serial number indicates it's built for "Low" pitch - i.e. designed for modern A=440Hz tuning. I've read different accounts of what was meant by High Pitch (and maybe there was more than one definition), but the consensus seems to be it was at least A=450Hz, or A=453Hz - kind of between semitones, in modern tuning, and too far out to compensate for by positioning the mouthpiece differently etc.

It's important to check for that when buying any brass or woodwind instrument from that period. I think military bands kept it going for a while longer, in Britain. Scottish bagpipe and Irish/Scottish Bb flute players tend to still use it, as I understand it. It's certainly the normal tuning for 5 or 6 key Bb flutes.
577 Replies · 71133 views
Ivan
Last reply · posted in Breakfastroom (chat and relax...)
Prompted by an hilarious joke I made at jbtsax's expense I was thinking about US spelling vs UK

To me the US seems to have gone the way of phonetic spelling with certain words; plough is plow, humour is humor, tumour is tumor, potato is tomato (I think I'm right)

So....

What happened to route? The spelling stayed the same but instead the pronunciation changed

Why?
159 Replies · 8519 views
  • I don't understand
Reactions: jbtsax
Tales from a pig that likes to stick his nose into everything.

Paint that S. How difficult could it be ?
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1) Search the net.
2) Find the color.
3) Order color.
4) Study task on University of YouTube, aka; For destruction by DYI presented by pro tech.
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Do the cleaning & prep.
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Paint and cleanup / detail the edges with hard cotton swabs. Sounds easy……:confused:
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Yeah tha guy Matt makes it look easy.
Anyone remember your first experience cooking bacon crispy while still in the frying pan !
1020 Replies · 56828 views
U
Last reply · posted in Saxophones: gear, playing, repair, impro

Saxophone beginners  If you had to do it all again

Evening all.

I'm returning to playing the sax after nearly 25 years, used to play alto (played in various bands, gigs in pubs, clubs, fesitvals, weddings & wakes, recorded some albums). I've only gone and bought myself a tenor off of ebay by accident and i'm planning to do some practice, mostly so I can get some half decent sounding brass parts down on my computer based deep house noodling.

When i started learning (early 90s) I taught myself, never had a lesson and subsequently developed a load of bad habits. These days there's something called youtube and it's full of AI slop tutorials for people to learn off so I've had a look around.

I'm planning on focussing on my embechoure first (long notes, stupid face exercises), intonation then finger placement (always moved my fingers too much and hit the pads too hard).

So my question is, if you had to do it all again - how would you go about it, what would you concentrate on?

Coke Escovado - I wouldn't change a thing
23 Replies · 2437 views
skeller047
Last reply · posted in Breakfastroom (chat and relax...)

Miscellaneous  What is “Politics”?

In the current thread on AI, Pete reminded us to keep politics out of the discussion, and to put side queries in another thread. So here is the side query…

When does a discussion become political? If something is an important societal topic (e.g., the state of music education, or the emergence of AI), there are certain to be politicians and government employees involved somehow. (Well, maybe not in music education, more’s the pity.) I’d like some clarity and perhaps a discussion on where the line is.

Case in point - government involvement in and support of health care. In most of the developed world, this is a non-issue. In the USA it’s a political hot potato. But this topic is important culturally and socially. Studies on strategies for extending lifespan. What tests to get, and where and how to get them. Seeking advice on a particular health condition. Etc. Here in the US, this can stray very easily into political waters - because of the various money, power and philosophical opinions around the subject.

So if I say “I think taxpayer funds should be used to provide a sensible baseline of health care support for everyone”, is that political? Or do I have to add something about a particular politician, or perhaps discuss specific legislation, to make it cross the line? “Joe Blow is an idiot because he thinks Medicare should be cancelled.”

I ask because topics like AI and healthcare affect us all, both as musicians and as humans in society. (Also as saxophonists, because some AI systems seem to think one needs 7 or 8 fingers per hand to play one!)

In the current discussion of AI, which is important IMO, there are obvious cultural and societal implications around the uses of AI. And these very easily stray into discussions of current political topics because various governments and government agencies are actively involved. Some guidelines on where to draw the boundaries of the discussion would be helpful.
35 Replies · 550 views
mizmar
Last reply · posted in Breakfastroom (chat and relax...)
Inspired by the convolution of the Show us your pet and Help a Hedgehog threads...

Here's one from another thread;

Red Squirrel
(They exist in Norway)


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872 Replies · 41269 views
Jeanette
Cafe Moderator Café Supporter
Last reply · posted in Breakfastroom (chat and relax...)

Miscellaneous  Daily Check In

Good morning,

We thought it might be good to have a thread where you can just come and say hi, tell us what you are doing today, have a moan, share an idea that you wouldn't necessarily start a thread for ( we can always create a new thread from posts here if it became a substantial discussion).

It doesn't have to be sax related🙂

Basically an easy way to connect on a daily basis.

So to kick us off, I am writing this whilst prepping a casserole for the slo cooker as I am playing sax today with café sax and need a quick easy tea when I get home.

I am still suffering with a cough which will impact my playing today and I am worried as we are playing our first care home gig next Sunday!!

Have a lovely Sunday

Jx
2799 Replies · 80806 views
Grumps
Last reply · posted in Saxophones: gear, playing, repair, impro
The dates have been announced for the 2027 International Saxophone Symposium hosted by the Navy Band at George Mason University: January 8-9.

Plan your trip now if you're coming from afar.
18 Replies · 689 views
L
Last reply · posted in Saxophones: gear, playing, repair, impro

Saxophones  Windcraft WAS-110 Alto

Me again !!

I have been offered the above complete with mouthpiece, care kit, strap, and case, for £215 (+ p&p) - wondering if this is a good deal?

@Steve Howard reviewed one of them some time ago and gave it a reasonably good review at the time - are they still worth picking up or would a Jupiter or Antigua Winds be a better option (for a beginner)?

Any thoughts / comments appreciated......

Thanks
48 Replies · 4582 views
Pete Thomas
Cafe Moderator Commercial
Last reply · posted in Breakfastroom (chat and relax...)
And care to share it with us?
176 Replies · 9287 views
mpjbiker
Last reply · posted in Saxophones: gear, playing, repair, impro
Anyone using one on tenor? What are your impressions and thoughts? Cheers!
8 Replies · 182 views
Tenor Viol
Last reply · posted in Breakfastroom (chat and relax...)
OK. I've thought about doing this for a while - setting up a general thread for me to post in, rather than necessarily creating a separate new thread every time for relatively minor matters, or discussion of how things are going etc.

So, the first item is my FB page got me with an Amazon advert and I seem to have ordered a jazz theory book... It will get delivered to the Amazon lockers at work on Monday

Tomorrow is a Café Trio/Quartet...Septet day where @trimmy is going to demonstrate ascending chromatic scales in augmented fourths, and descending in diminished fifths... 😀

Yesterday was a wind band concert in Maghull. There were about 85 of us playing. We had a contrabassoon in the band...

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1918 Replies · 109606 views
mizmar
Last reply · posted in Saxophones: gear, playing, repair, impro
In an arrangement of Oye Como Va, by Johnny Ferreira we have

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DFDFDFA on the second register, then at the top.

I'm just about stable on D to altisimo A - good exercise for me!

But G is quite far away, fungering wise..
My best alt A is L23+a side key.

How would you approach the fall?

Thanks.
20 Replies · 249 views
sax panther
Last reply · posted in Yardsale - Sell, buy & swap
for sale - a rare beast, the Phil-tone Isotope. This has been discontinued for a while, it was a collaboration between Phil-tone and Theo Wanne -beautifully made piece as you'd expect. Comes with the original wooden box. Big step baffle so unsurprisingly leans towards the bright side with a clean, modern sound, but I found it to be capable of a bit more warmth and versatility than a guardala for example.

Always used with a patch, I've removed this to give it a clean up for selling and you can see on the photos there's a bit of a colour difference on the beak where the patch has been stuck on. There's also some discolouration on the table which I've shown in the photos below, this was there when I purchased it (I'm not the first owner) but doesn't affect playability - table is flat and rails are unblemished. I've found myself to be more comfortable on rollover baffles, but this needs to be enjoyed by someone instead of sitting on my shelf. UK postage only please.

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1 Replies · 81 views
  • Like
Reactions: lig
sax panther
· posted in Yardsale - Sell, buy & swap
Selling my PPT tenor mouthpiece, 8* tip opening. Very lightly used, always used a mouthpiece patch but have taken this off to clean it up for sale here. Will be posted with the original packaging and tube. Nice versatile piece, lots of reviews/demos on the site already for you to peruse. UK postage only please. Thanks for looking!


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0 Replies · 89 views

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