Playing the saxophone What does professional mean?

[Tonehole]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9kaQ3ZKPE0&t=20s

 

[Tonehole]

View: https://vimeo.com/467158620

 

[Tonehole]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcRyjkYdDxM&t=112s

 

[Colin the Bear]

@Colin the Bear?

Well. There was a time when my sole income was blowing a saxophone on the street, with others. It was supplemented by the occasional gig.
I don't think I was a very competent musician at that time. An enthusiastic blower of simple tunes with no idea of technique or theory.

Professional? I suppose, but I could only do what I did. I packed it in after 5 or so years. Beatles and Stephen Foster tunes in Eb were doing my head in, and the old Lafleur was flagging

Later I returned with an ipod and some home made BiaB backing tracks and a small P.A. Full time busking and the odd garden party and pub gig. Sole income. Better musician. G4m alto. Professional?

Retired now. Occasional gig and the odd busk. Semi retired, semi pro?

It has never occurred to me to label myself. If I had to, I've no idea.

 

[Pete Thomas]

But what if the teacher who has been certified and has a degree in performance piano only plays at recitals or charity events? Not a professional musician?

That would mean a saxophone professor say Bergonzi is no longer a professional musician as he makes the majority of his income teaching.

I've realised this topic is rather a can of worms, with so many interpretations. I'm not sure I can define the word. as an adjective it can describe the status of someone, but can also describe their behaviour.

For example I was on a tour earning decent enough money. I considered I was a professional musician. On the same tour I turned up late for a flight because I'd gone out and had a heavy night in San Francisco, woke up in a strange bed and realised I didn't even know the flight number, departure time or the tour manager's phone number. That was definitely NOT professional.

Maybe we all need to just go by our own definitions.

 

[Colin the Bear]

It's all coming out now😂

 

[Pete Thomas]

Compare with sports people Pep Guardiola was definitely a professional footballer. He stopped playing professionally and became a professional coach/manager. Is he a professional footballer now?

Of course perhaps not a perfect analogy as footballers are more or less forced to retire for age related fitness reasons.

 

[Pete Effamy]

I've realised this topic is rather a can of worms, with so many interpretations. I'm not sure I can define the word. as an adjective it can describe the status of someone, but can also describe their behaviour.

For example I was on a tour earning decent enough money. I considered I was a professional musician. On the same tour I turned up late for a flight because I'd gone out and had a heavy night in San Francisco, woke up in a strange bed and realised I didn't even know the flight number, departure time or the tour manager's phone number. That was definitely NOT professional.

Maybe we all need to just go by our own definitions.

At least you remembered who you were

 

[mizmar]

Compare with sports people Pep Guardiola was definitely a professional footballer. He stopped playing professionally and became a professional coach/manager. Is he a professional footballer now?

So, you say he stopped being a professional footballer and then ask if is now?

The more interesting analogy might be:
The day after his retirement party he was - presumably, give or take hangovers - no worse at football. But he was not longer A Professional Footballer. His priorities changed for his working day.
Maybe he was quite a good coach while playing football professionally. Then he was a professional coach while playing football recreationally.

Again, professionalism isn't a skill ranking.
It requires some skills, but requires other things as well.
Someone above was a professional musician. Stopped and became a professor. Their skills level didn't change overnight - their conduct changed. Some of that would, maybe, included fewer hours practicing, which may impact on skills... Fine. There's no end of profs who where top - or even mediocre - practitioners; are out of practice etc. in many disciplines.

 

[LostCircuits]

Sorry to poop the party but I'd argue that professional should be viewed independent of remuneration. I think the latter might deserve the term commercial player, as opposed to professional as opposed to amateur.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/professional

There are three different meanings for professional defined above. My pick is the one that focuses on the skill level rather than the compensation. Even worse, if you throw in the exclusive income clause, no investments, no crypto, no panhandling (30 years ago the average income of a roadside squeegee guy in NYC was upward of $80k pa).

Maybe declaring the income including tips could be a factor along with the fact that e.g., during the COVID shutdown, Colorado paid all musicians, who had declared their gig income to the IRS $600, per week.

Just a few ideas to think about.

 

[Veggie Dave]

If your main income comes from music (playing, writing, teaching) then you're a professional musician.

Professionalism is something any musician, from any level, can both have or lack.

 

[Pete Effamy]

If your main income comes from music (playing, writing, teaching) then you're a professional musician.

Professionalism is something any musician, from any level, can both have or lack.

In other words; it could be your profession, but you might not be very professional.

 

[Pete Thomas]

There are three different meanings for professional defined above. My pick is the one that focuses on the skill level rather than the compensation

Fair enough but who judges or assesses the skill level.

 

[LostCircuits]

Fair enough but who judges or assesses the skill level.

If there is a doubt about the skill level, how about behavior? I played professional disc golf, not because the pay-out was money but because I was tired of the amateurish behavior of some players in the amateur brackets. Cheating, heckling of competitors, you name it.

I met a Nobel Laureate who was found out after leaving Rockefeller University to have planted bugs and listening devices in other staff's and competitors' labs. That alone should have disqualified him for life but RU covered it up because it was also their reputation that was on the line.

Yes, I've also seen my share of amateurish behavior in "professional" players. Being rude, arrogant and condescending to others really puts a dent in anyone's professional attire.

But we never said that professionalism has to be a singular attribute. In fact, I would argue there are many facets that need to hold, and each one of them may improve or diminish what we perceive as professionalism.

Or am I wrong here? You tell me.