Playing the saxophone What does professional mean?

[Pete Thomas]

What about players that only play and never teach?

I would say that if they make a living from playing (whether paid by cash or not) they are professional.

 

[Pete Effamy]

we were always paid in cash, while we packed up.

All of us were back then. Some will be now, but you can’t rely on that being so and what difference does it make?

I still get paid by cheque by one of my bands - easy now though as 1 minute after receiving their cheques the band have paid them in via bank apps.

 

[Pete Effamy]

I would say that if they make a living from playing (whether paid by cash or not) are professional.

Then we differ. Yes, they are a person earning money sole through music, but if someone tells me about a pro player I expect something that isn’t going to offend my ears.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Then we differ. Yes, they are a person earning money sole through music, but if someone tells me about a pro player I expect something that isn’t going to offend my ears.

I think it's fine to differ over this topic. If someone is a professional architect or lawyer you know they are professional because (a) they have a professional qualification and (b) they are drawing buildings or suing people. 🙂

No musical qualifiaction is necessary for any professional musician as far as I know, but someone who draws buildings but is not qualified cannot call theselves an architect I believe, they can say "architectural services" and there are many of these who studied and can be very good but didn't make it through to the end of course (7 years or something like that?)

 

[mizmar]

Interesting

In many other professions - and, Indeed, trades - "professional" is someone who; A/ will deliver on a job they've accepted. B/ can carry liability.
Insurance companies do B/ by requiring stuff like qualification, certification, charter status etc.
Getting paid matters because, sure, it's a living and that someone does something for a living inspires confidence. Also because getting and staying qualified is expensive and also because "offer, acceptance, consideration" defines a contract. Once a contract exists, failure to deliver correctly incurres liability.
And that applies for a range of activities - on the ground, back office, client facing etc.

Don't know how that translates to Music.
I guess when there's a lot at stake if someone doesn't show up or shows not ready - professionalism matters more.

 

[Tonehole]

But in sports one can be semi pro yet make their living only from playing the sport. They advance to pro level when called up to the big leagues / elite. But they are still a professional ball player just in the minor leagues?

A player that has poor mastery of the instrument can be a professional. I have played with many yet I would not refer to them as a pro level player.

Would a pro musician who is ranked as an elite player of his instrument who becomes a professor / teacher not still be recognised as a pro? Or in the case of my piano teacher at Royal College she has reached an elite status of skill yet may have never been paid to perform and is now a professional ranked pianist qualified to be a concert pianist who only teaches.

One can dress or act in a professional manner without being a professional and the opposite can hold as well.

There are many nuances to the word.

Can a musician be a layman?

 

[mizmar]

Yeah - but "professional" isn't purely a requirement on, or a measure of, technical ability. It requires an appropriate level of technical ability amongst other things.

If you had a top performer who was always late or throwing a strop you might say "they're very good, but unprofessional - book them if it's really worth it"
Equally
If you had an adequate performer who was always on time and ready, you might say "meh, they're OK but very professional - I'd book them anytime"

 

[Dr G]

What defines “musician”?

 

[Pete Thomas]

What defines “musician”?

Most people might think it’s someone who either plays an instrument competently or aspires to playing competently - whether or not for a living.

 

[Grumps]

Semi-pro is an interesting one though. Does it mean playing isn't your sole source of income...or does it mean that you're not quite up to snuff?

In my case... it's both!

 

[Dr G]

Most people might think it’s someone who either plays an instrument competently or aspires to playing competently - whether or not for a living.

So a busker, learning to play on a street corner that gets a shilling in their can, may or may not qualify as a professional musician!

 

[Pete Thomas]

What defines “musician”?

Most people might think it’s someone who either plays an instrument competently or aspires to playing competently - whether or not for a living.

So a busker, learning to play on a street corner that gets a shilling in their can, may or may not qualify as a professional musician!

But you asked what defines musician, not necessarily professional. I might call that busker a musician but probably not a professional musician.

 

[Targa]

But you asked what defines musician, not necessarily professional. I might call that busker a musician but probably not a professional musician.

@Colin the Bear?

 

[Pete Thomas]

Well if you never perform, but only teach you are a teacher.

What about players that only play and never teach?

Well if you only teach but never perform, you are a teacher.

 

[Dr G]

Well if you only teach but never perform, you are a teacher.

OK, how ‘bout a whistling magician?

 

[Tonehole]

😎 So I have a degree in Jazz performance that must make me a professional!
I have the diploma and was judged qualified by my peers in understanding and in playing. So anyone who hires me is getting a qualified professional. Though I am a much better musician now than when I graduated.

 

[lig]

In my case... it's both!

lol… i was thinking the same thing for me too.

I am particular about band members. If a player has amazing chops but isn’t fun to play with or is unreliable - both are dealbreakers to me.

 

[Tonehole]

Well if you only teach but never perform, you are a teacher.

But what if the teacher who has been certified and has a degree in performance piano only plays at recitals or charity events? Not a professional musician?

That would mean a saxophone professor say Bergonzi is no longer a professional musician as he makes the majority of his income teaching.

 

[thomsax]

To be a professional (seller) he/she get paid to do a job that a person (buyer) request. It's just not about food and beer ..... .

A profesional have skills to fullfill the buyer. It's good to be able to play a birthday song, national anthem or other songs, without reading, that are common when people comes together.

 

[Pete Effamy]

OK, how ‘bout a whistling magician?

depends upon whether he teaches or not and whether his whistling is any good.