Teaching Student choosing the teacher’s method

[lydian]

@thomsax
Sounds like that was a great teaching and learning experience. I agree a good teacher should help you reach your goals in the genres you want to play. If that means focusing only on pentatonics in B E A D and G, great. But the student should not dictate how that’s taught. That’s your teacher’s job. If your teacher ignores your goals, get a different teacher.

 

[Dr G]

If that was directed at my post.
If you followed the discussion and the thread title, you'd see that reply was about following what a teacher is instructing, even if one's not having a great time all the time.
HTH

I have read the discussion and the previous thread. I am responding to member “Bisaxual”.

No, it doesn’t help for you to explain something that I didn’t ask about. I will raise my hand and ask a question when I am unsure.

 

[mizmar]

I am responding to member “Bisaxual”.

Fair enough.

If you put a users name in the reply it'd make it more obvious. Adding a '@" before their id will even notify them! Neat!

 

[Jimmymack]

Grit…. What good is it if you don’t know what you’re doing? Try the wrong thing again with greater determination.

I don’t think the post from @Bisaxual suggests this at all. He simply states that the basics are in the main readily available in books and just require application from the student to learn them, you know what you’re doing because it’s there, clearly, on the page. What you do with that information may benefit from a teacher or not, depending on the quality, attitude and commitment of the teacher which is variable.

 

[lydian]

I don’t think the post from @Bisaxual suggests this at all. He simply states that the basics are in the main readily available in books and just require application from the student to learn them, you know what you’re doing because it’s there, clearly, on the page. What you do with that information may benefit from a teacher or not, depending on the quality, attitude and commitment of the teacher which is variable.

The problem is learning the really important bits you can't get from a book. I know plenty of players who can wiggle their fingers correctly and play all the exercises in a book yet sound rubbish because they never learned how to make a decent tone or play in time with good phrasing and dynamics. Even the most self-motivated student will likely fail because of this.

 

[Jimmymack]

Tone, phrasing and dynamics come from playing with other musicians and listening, of course you can’t get that from a book but I didn’t think that was being suggested.

 

[Bisaxual]

All true, and thank you Jimmymack for clarifying what I said, rather than what someone else wanted to hear. Indeed, there is much (most?) about music that can’t be learned from books. For my own situation of having played music for more than 60 years, and only wanting to learn sax now, makes for somewhat different circumstances. Still, as I’ve said before, I could occasionally (often?) benefit from some good advice from a teacher, but the reality of finding an agreeable teacher/student fit complicates things. And it makes heeding the inevitable good advice to “get a teacher before you develop bad habits” more difficult to implement than some seem capable of grasping. We’re all born different from one another.

 

[Dr G]

Fair enough.

If you put a users name in the reply it'd make it more obvious. Adding a '@" before their id will even notify them! Neat!

Are you talking to me? 😉

 

[Dr G]

All true, and thank you Jimmymack for clarifying what I said, rather than what someone else wanted to hear. Indeed, there is much (most?) about music that can’t be learned from books. For my own situation of having played music for more than 60 years, and only wanting to learn sax now, makes for somewhat different circumstances. Still, as I’ve said before, I could occasionally (often?) benefit from some good advice from a teacher, but the reality of finding an agreeable teacher/student fit complicates things. And it makes heeding the inevitable good advice to “get a teacher before you develop bad habits” more difficult to implement than some seem capable of grasping. We’re all born different from one another.

Thanks for sharing that. More information can help inform the conversation. I, too, play several instruments (woodwinds, percussion, and guitars). That's how I know that some aspects are applicable across families of instruments, and some skills transfer almost not at all.

What are your other instruments? Do you have experience playing reeds? Have you played an instrument that demands an embouchure?

 

[Bisaxual]

Sorry, I’d already mentioned my pre-sax musical history. You might have come late to the party😎

 

[lydian]

Sorry, I’d already mentioned my pre-sax musical history. You might have come late to the party😎

Found it. Strings

When you find that book that teaches good tone and good time, let me know. I’d love to hear the results.

 

[Dr G]

Sorry, I’d already mentioned my pre-sax musical history. You might have come late to the party😎

I'll concede that I too had instruction in piano and a brass instrument before I decided to start learning guitar on my own as a teenager. Since I retired, I've taken up a couple of other stringed instruments, so the basic mechanics of music are not totally unfamiliar to me.

Sorry, I had blocked out the brasswind player part, and was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Carry on. You know everything you need.

 

[Pete Thomas]

When you find that book that teaches good tone and good time, let me know. I’d love to hear the results.

You rang sir?

 

[lydian]

Tone, phrasing and dynamics come from playing with other musicians and listening, of course you can’t get that from a book but I didn’t think that was being suggested.

It was. The gist was a self motivated student can get everything they need from books. The rationalization was a local teacher was hard to find. With modern technology, I find this very difficult to believe. If you can post in this forum, then online lessons are also an option for you.

 

[lydian]

You rang sir?

Lay it on me. I’m sure you make a noble attempt at explaining it. But how can the student execute it with no assessment or feedback from another human being? I know from teaching that virtually no beginner has good tone or good time, and that this will persist indefinitely if not corrected by another human being.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I’m sure you make a noble attempt at explaining it.

Yes I’m working on how to combine tone exercises with other aspects of technique. So fair enough to call me on work still in progress. My last masterclass at sax.co.uk hinted at this but a s yet nothing complete and published.

But how can the student execute it with no assessment or feedback from another human being?

Good point. Some students would be able to, others not.

 

[Targa]

You rang sir?

I'd never noticed the similarity before:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPMKlEwrIs8

 

[eb424]

Lay it on me. I’m sure you make a noble attempt at explaining it. But how can the student execute it with no assessment or feedback from another human being? I know from teaching that virtually no beginner has good tone or good time, and that this will persist indefinitely if not corrected by another human being.

Just for clarity..if i bought my songs in to you for a lesson ( with the scores and tracks) and asked to learn to play them for a gig..would you accept..

 

[skeller047]

One cannot learn music from books. One can learn music from listening to recorded music. But the best way to learn music is by playing with other people.

Regarding the mechanics of producing a good sound, and reading notes (or chord progressions), in person instruction is best. Online instruction is acceptable. Books might help with the reading part, but a context is required. No way can a book teach about tone and articulation, without referring to recorded examples. This make the internet a valuable resource, as the examples can be embedded in the text.

But online study lacks the feeling that comes from melding your sound with another, whether it’s with an instructor or as part of a group.

 

[Pete Thomas]

One cannot learn music from books.

Agreed. Not from books alone.

One can learn music from listening to recorded music.

Yes.

But the best way to learn music is by playing with other people.

Yes, but add the above two things and it can be even better m.