Beginner recording Recording Progress

[AlonW]

Here's 'Round Midnight by Thelonius Monk. I improvised over the intro and the coda.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMeR9dXupso

 

[MikeMorrell]

Hi @AlonW,
(edited)
I enjoyed really listening to your version of 'Round Midnight' (three times!)! First off, well done for creating your own 'personal version' of this Blues/Jazz standard!

If you don't mind, I'd like to give you some personal constructively-intended feedback (just as a listener):
- 'Round Midnight' is (for me and others) a 'slow, moody, ballad'; it's appeal (to me) lies in the melody, and chord variations
- the (improvised) intro is a great idea; I liked the 'mood' and your phrasing (and repetition of the 'pattern')
- I thought the 'break' (time) between your intro and 'the melody' could have been longer; just to create a 'breathing space'
- I really enjoyed your tone and playing style on the melody;
- the outro often matched the intro well but at times (higher notes) got a bit 'busy' for me; the 'slow, moody ballad' feel got a bit lost, but your ending was great

On the subject of 'improvs', it's entirely up to you. I just note that there are a few (personal) 'embellishments' you could perhaps have added (depending on your ability) to 'add interest' to the Round Midnight melody. Just as an alternative to 'improv'. I found this YouTube video (as an amateur) useful in summarizing different 'embellishment techniques'.

So no criticism from me, just some suggestions that I hope will help you moving forward.

Best Wishes.

Mike

PS. I should add that you improvise way better than I can!

 

[mrblackbat]

Tuning dude. Work on your tuning. Said it before, I'll say it again - it's ruining your playing.

 

[Colin the Bear]

This is a complicated melody in, Eb minor is it? Pitching and timing are crucial to create the mood and "flavour". Some notes sound like a surprise to you. Hitting them slightly off key and bending them the wrong way. Also noodling major over a minor song kills it for me.

You've got the basics. Good core tone and bits of it are lovely.

It needs more sensitivity and understanding which will come with rehearsal. Another hundred times through and it will start to come.

 

[JayeNM]

Good job for your playing level/development level.

I think some comments here, while valid and astute, fail to take into account 'where you were' as recently as a year ago....

So, respectfully to all....getting into the 'Round Midnight is the sort of composition that has to be treated in such a way that...' sort of discussion...is probably more appropriate to have in a year from now as opposed to today.
Today, I glean, you wanted to get a good fundamental grasp on the tune and play thru it and make it sound pretty decent. Which is not small beans.
And you did that, methinks.

You have made HUGE LEAPS.

1) you seem to be past your 'old' 'improvising' method which you used to defend tooth and nail, despite folks just wanting to share some basic suggestions. HOWEVER YOU GOT HERE, good on ya'.
Gone are the massive clunker notes and strange phrasing. Your note selection on your noodling is pretty darn good, overall. Your phrasing is now, for the most part, IN TEMPO...also another thing which has come along. So again, however you exorcised or diminished many of those attributes...well done !

2) Likewise, despite some flexy intonation ....your note/tone quality is much more consistent in volume and dynamics and stability across all the notes you are playing....volume and note stability no longer 'goes in and out' anywhere near where it used to.
Keep on this...as others replied, inconsistency is still there now and again but oh boy, it is WAY WAY cleaner now.

So, yeah...I mean, I could listen to this several times and enjoy it. If I walked into a cafe and you were there playing this and the last tune you posted here...I would sit down and hang out and listen.

Keep it up.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I thought the 'break' (time) between your intro and 'the melody' could have been longer;

Agreed. A small point but it seems to just want to be a bit more of a pause there

You have made HUGE LEAPS.

I second that. I couldn't believe how you have improved - obviously been doing a lot of work. This has a lovely feel to it and the timing is nicely floaty without laboring the tempo if you know what I mean. Yes there are one or two spots where you could improve intonation, but I it sounds like you've worked hard and improved enormously in that area.

 

[AlonW]

Here's "Cuando Vuelva a Tu Lado" by María Grever.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AutNMki0gYI

 

[Colin the Bear]

Yes. Come a long way and improving. I only commented because I commented on the other two tracks.

Trying to give an honest opinion. Not trying to be harsh. It doesn't really matter where you've come from. It's where you're at that gets judged.

It's nice to know where you're at.

I'm very fussy about saxophone. Some of the so called greats get on my nerves. Some clips get turned off after a very short time.

A credit to @AlonW that I listened to the whole clip and only wanted to convey where it could be improved. IMHO.

 

[cappers]

The first two notes/sound of this tune, would get me to get the beer and walk out.
Wouldn't stay, even if the beer was free.

Hope that some helpful humor is taken well.

I think @AlonW should be congratulted on his efforts rather than patronised. Of course there will be mistakes, but overall I think he did well. It easy for long term experienced players to criticise learners' playing, maybe forgetting that they were beginners once.

As a beginner myself I would take umbrage at @PiccoloPirate 's comments. Labelled as "helpful humor (sic)" but I would call it condescending, unhelpful and not funny.

I believe a more positive approach in a critique would be better encouragement for a learner. Highlight what was good and point out where it could be improved rather than slagging it off.

I'm wary of posting my efforts anymore because of the reactions by some on here. I have recieved a couple of postive and constructive DMs regarding my playing, by folk who are aware that I'm only a year or so in and take that into consideration.

If pats on the back and feathers in the cap, leads to diligent practice .... 👍👍
Time will tell.

I'm not into sugar coatings and false praise and prefer to hear the truth about my playing, but it can be said in a less demeaning manner.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

To clarify,
Post #8, was for the thread, My Mother's Eyes.

 

[cappers]

Doesn’t make it any nicer!

 

[mrblackbat]

There is also history here, Cappers, and some of the advice has been given before, ignored and even fought against.

I actually agree with @PiccoloPirate (which is rare, hah) that the first phrase instantly made me recoil very badly. Horrendously out of tune music is just horrendous.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

To post #11 & #13.

Post #12, was to explain what was stated, in post #8, and which thread had those first two notes, played poorly.

You have improved a bit rhythmically,
"on the gig".

If you say you hear solos in your mind when you listen to music, why not try to play those ideas?
Practice them and if possible, write them down.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Out of tune and poor articulation,
can be cured with diligent practice.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Seems we have differing opinions about out of tune and how to be sensitive when critiquing anyone's playing. I'm the first to say we should not ignore what we think can be improved and to help people with perceived errors in their playing. But there is a way to do it while remaining positive and encouraging, especially when it is presented as a beginner recording. I learned quite quickly as a teacher that some people responded very well to brutal criticism but others did not and needed a more encouraging aaproach. In a live context you can quickly gauge which of those types the person is, online it is not so easy.

It was actually the first phrase that made me sit up and realise how much Alon has improved recently. Yes the top C needs some work but it sounded like he realised and lipped it a bit to improve the tuning. (NB: I'm talking very subjectively here)

 

[mrblackbat]

But there is a way to do it while remaining positive and encouraging,

There is, and there’s also a way to receive that criticism too. Which didn’t happen several times in the past, hence the somewhat frosty responses now.

 

[cappers]

Apologies if my post was grumpy. Like Pete says below...

I learned quite quickly as a teacher that some people responded very well to brutal criticism but others did not and needed a more encouraging aaproach. In a live context you can quickly gauge which of those types the person is, online it is not so easy.

I prefer to receive honest and if required brutal criticism and can take it, but just thought it was a little bit harsh in the way it was phrased. However I didn't know the back-story here.

I always use the old '**** sandwich' approach...say something positive, highlight the weaknesses and end with positive encouragement.

I dread to think what others think about my beginner's attempts! Nevertheless the critiques and advice I have recieved on here has been helpful

 

[JayeNM]

I think mixing or alluding to comments from a different thread actually confuses the convo on this one....personally I couldn't follow why some things were being said....y'all started referencing post #'s which aren't the post #'s on THIS thread.... and inserting quotes from a different thread (?)

I'm an old man, droogies...am confused enuff in my daily M.O.

I do agree, not all criticism need be presented sugar coated...

 

[Dr G]

As written in the book "Criticism in Your Life - How to Use it" - the author suggests the following. Don't make criticism personal and don't take it personally. And yes, some people cannot turn off their sensitivity.

It gets really interesting in forums such as this when a player is being critiqued and a third party takes umbrage to a conversation that doesn't involve them.

If someone is especially sensitive to criticism, they need to evaluate whether an online forum is a place for them to participate.

"Shouldn't everyone be nice?" you ask. Some people will get upset regardless of intentions.

 

[cappers]

It gets really interesting in forums such as this when a player is being critiqued and a third party takes umbrage to a conversation that doesn't involve them.

Fair point George.
It wasn't the criticism per se, more the way it was put across.
If I were sensitive to criticism I wouldn't post my beginner's attempts on here.
I value any input and have a thick skin, so fire way! Others may differ,
Cheers.