Mouthpiece reviews PPT Alto MP 6**

[Nick Wyver]

Oh yes there are, sorry couldn't resist

Jx

Oh no there aren't!

It's behind you!

 

[DavidUK]

.. if there is a leak issue David needs to take it back,but I'm sure that other mouthpieces he has would have presented this issue.

Yes, tried the Yam 6CM and Bari Esprit II on the 62 again last night with the same reed and no problems with low C and below.
Also tried the PPT on the other MkI 62 and I get the same problems. It's ME, the reed, and the wider PPT tip for sure.
The PPT has quite a small body diameter and the four double screw ligs I have all closed up fully before I had the reed secure in its usual position. I've now tried a Selmer single screw type and this has vastly improved the issue. I don't like this lig as it's so easy to knock the reed out of alignment when removing/fitting the MP.
At the moment a normal lig has to be further away from the MP tip to give a secure fix where it gets fatter and so this makes the reed effectively "softer" still. I can pad a normal lig out to give some extra adjustment room.
I copied this reed positioning when re-trying the Yam and Bari MPs and the low notes played fine, so I know it's a combination of new MP/reed/me. As Ads said elsewhere it took him a week or so to get used to his tenor PPT. The SDA exhibits a little of the playing difficulty down low. On the 62 sometimes it comes right, others not, which suggests I need to learn the best way to approach a wide tip, low note combination.
I have a lesson tomorrow...

Charlie Connolly's total overhaul of my Grassi tenor convinced me he is indeed a superb craftsman when it comes to reviving an old sax. he took two and a half days to rebuild it and of course to set it up and I have had no issues whatsoever despite it coming out to play only once in a while. Nothing has lured me away from it yet.
The two Yamaha Mk1 YAS-62s playing identically, including my low end PPT issue, suggests they are both in good order especially when the Yam and Bari MPs play fine on both.

 

[Nick Wyver]

Rovners are cheapish and don't slip.

 

[DavidUK]

Rovners are cheapish and don't slip.

How do they compare to the BG lig I also tried, here: http://cafesaxophone.com/threads/bg...ation-ligature-for-ebonite-mouthpieces.14792/

Is the Rovner one better than the BG one? Why?
Mind you, the PPT isn't "ebonite" but this lig didn't suit the Yam 6CM or Yani 5 HR either.

 

[jazzdoh]

... if there is a leak issue David needs to take it back,but I'm sure that other mouthpieces he has would have presented this issue.

Yes, tried the Yam 6CM and Bari Esprit II on the 62 again last night with the same reed and no problems with low C and below.
Also tried the PPT on the other MkI 62 and I get the same problems. It's ME, the reed, and the wider PPT tip for sure.
The PPT has quite a small body diameter and the four double screw ligs I have all closed up fully before I had the reed secure in its usual position. I've now tried a Selmer single screw type and this has vastly improved the issue. I don't like this lig as it's so easy to knock the reed out of alignment when removing/fitting the MP.
At the moment a normal lig has to be further away from the MP tip to give a secure fix where it gets fatter and so this makes the reed effectively "softer" still. I can pad a normal lig out to give some extra adjustment room.
I copied this reed positioning when re-trying the Yam and Bari MPs and the low notes played fine, so I know it's a combination of new MP/reed/me. As Ads said elsewhere it took him a week or so to get used to his tenor PPT. The SDA exhibits a little of the playing difficulty down low. On the 62 sometimes it comes right, others not, which suggests I need to learn the best way to approach a wide tip, low note combination.
I have a lesson tomorrow...

Charlie Connolly's total overhaul of my Grassi tenor convinced me he is indeed a superb craftsman when it comes to reviving an old sax. he took two and a half days to rebuild it and of course to set it up and I have had no issues whatsoever despite it coming out to play only once in a while. Nothing has lured me away from it yet.
The two Yamaha Mk1 YAS-62s playing identically, including my low end PPT issue, suggests they are both in good order especially when the Yam and Bari MPs play fine on both.

I think you will get used to the PPT if you have patience,it does take time,some players have said that some mpc's have taken them months to be happy with a particular mouthpiece especially as you are going up in tip size.
Maybe a different lig would improve your problem,the Claude Lakey Compass lig is cheap and will fit the PPT as they claim it fits any mpc,I'm not sure about that claim but at the price of £25 it hardly breaks the bank.

 

[BigMartin]

At the moment a normal lig has to be further away from the MP tip to give a secure fix where it gets fatter and so this makes the reed effectively "softer" still.

I don't think it should. The lig should just be holding the reed against the flat bit of the table. It it's affecting the reed's vibration it sounds to me like youre putting it too high normally.

 

[DavidUK]

I don't think it should. The lig should just be holding the reed against the flat bit of the table. It it's affecting the reed's vibration it sounds to me like youre putting it too high normally.

You may be right. I had been securing the reed with its filed ridge about 2mm above the end of the ligature. On the PPT this increases to around 3mm, not a huge amount. In this latter position the lig is sitting plum in the centre of the PPT's body, equidistant from each end of it. This does look to be more correct?
My tutor explained early on that a reed can be made to feel harder by moving the lig toward the MP tip thus allowing less of it to vibrate, or moving it away from the tip allowing more reed to vibrate and feeling softer.
I can understand the mechanics of what he says. Is there a counter argument?

 

[kevgermany]

If the lig is that loose, go down a size, or glue some thin leather/fake leather in it.

There's little difference between BG and Rovner dark. I prefer the Rovner though.

 

[kevgermany]

If you're struggling like thisbwith the PPT, but not other narrower pieces, probably a good move to talk to Pete about swapping it for the narrower tip. Trying a softer reed may sort it, though.

Has your tutor checked the 62?

 

[Nick Wyver]

The position of the lig is only going to make a difference if it is forward enough to start to cover the lay. I wouldn't recommend that.

BG/Rovner - same.

 

[DavidUK]

If you're struggling like thisbwith the PPT, but not other narrower pieces, probably a good move to talk to Pete about swapping it for the narrower tip. Trying a softer reed may sort it, though.

Has your tutor checked the 62?

Bearing in mind I can hit the low notes correctly 50% of the time on the 62, and more with a Plasticover 2, it seems to me the issue is down to my technique. As a beginner, low C and below isn't the most used area and does require good mouth and tongue positioning I'm sure. Slurring from any low note to another isn't a problem at all, it's tonguing each one separately that sometimes gives a slightly naff sound rather than a square on "grunt".
I really like the PPT/RJS sound and wouldn't want to go narrower although my tutor may recommend it for better tuning. On the SDA the PPT, to my ears, sounds really sweet, in tune, and long notes can be held with perfect stability.
I was playing Cry me a river fairly slowly and this shines through. With the 62 there is more tendency to waver slightly and the sound is a little more brash or bright as some may call it. It may well be I have two horns suited to different genres of music, and this may explain why the 62 presents a more tricky low note conundrum for me.

My tutor played the 62 (and SDA) two weeks ago with his MP and had no issues with either. He (and I at that time) preferred the sound of the 62. Playing Cry me a river on both to a backing track on Saturday, with the PPT/RJS, made me think the SDA is the more "complete" horn. But then I may well think the 62 is better when plying something fast and jazzy. Still stuck with both for the time being! When I tried the Yam 6CM again the other day I still wondered how I could be happy with its sound on either sax!

 

[Ads]

lets face it David - if both the 62 and SDA are still with you now, getting rid of either would be a mistake as you`ll miss the one you sold . it`s not as if you were desperate to own ONE Alto especially as Alto is your main horn .

 

[DavidUK]

Yes Ads, quite correct.

My lesson was postponed until Wednesday so I'll get a few more pointers on on low notes then.

 

[kevgermany]

did you find anything with the leak light?

 

[DavidUK]

I bought one of those 12v LED jobbies which needs a phone charger or the like to power it, but I haven't located an old one yet.

BUT... bearing in mind the 62 plays fine with other MPs, as does the other 62 for sale, yet both demonstrate this issue with the PPT I think I can rule out any leaks. As I've reiterated, I'm sure it's a combination of:
ME; a new MP; wider tip than I'm used to; reed choice.
I'll get my tutor to try the sax again Wednesday to check, then ask him for some "low C and below" advice.
I currently have a tiny but quite sore ulcer on the tip of my tongue. This may be part of the issue, or indeed caused in the process of trying to sort it!

 

[kevgermany]

for the low notes, you're more breathing into the mouthpiece, than blowing into it. And don't get your embouchure too tight. That's easy, especially with a new, wide mouthpiece.

 

[altissimo]

it's possible that the facing is a bit longer on the PPT alto than the mouthpieces you're used to - the 'break point' where the reed meets the table may be further from the tip than your other mouthpieces. Experiment with how far you put the PPT in your mouth

It took me months to get used to my Lawton and it's long facing, I had to readjust everything - lower lip, throat, tongue shape, air support, strap height, reed strength - a lot of trial and error that has given me greater understanding of what I'm actually doing when I play.
High performance mouthpieces like the Lawton and PPT can be a bit more difficult to control, in the same way that a high performance sports car is a bit more of a challenge than a family runabout

 

[Fraser Jarvis]

Interesting points there about the Lawton Dave, I recently went over to my old 7*bb I got Sakshama to wave his magic wand over, I found I had to get more in my mouth to get the best out of it.
David, I'm no expert but I think all you need to do is work a bit on your diaphragm support to get that new piece working for you.

 

[DavidUK]

Thanks all for your advice. My tutor yesterday gave me some exercises to improve hitting the low notes with the PPT, particularly tongue position, so I'll carry on learning the new MP.

With it fitted on the SDA and 62 in turn, he preferred the SDA for Cry me a River, and the 62 for something more jazzy. Like I thought, the 62 is more tricky to hold a stable pure note in a slow ballad, whereas the SDA is not as bright in a faster piece.

Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy is my homework... guess which horn...?

 

[ProfJames]

Soprano?