Saxophones How will Tariffs affect Sax Prices?

[Ghr9204]

Unless a particular country's laws specify otherwise, Country of Origin usually IMO implies its final assembly location, although parts may be sourced from various countries. If one shifts their final assembly point to another country can possibly avoid unfavourable expensive tariffs in another.

Profit is the motivation for a manufacturer, basically the reward / Incentive for producing an item. If it becomes less profitable, then in order to remain in business, either the manufacturer discontinues the item(s) or shifts it to a more profitable location.

Another caveat to profitability is law(s) within a country that bans products or components manufactured from a particular country. With US for example, it could be parts manufactured in North Korea. Thus, a sax containing North Korean part(s) may be un-importable to US or even non-transportable in US destined for another country.

 

[Dr G]

Unless a particular country's laws specify otherwise, Country of Origin usually IMO implies its final assembly location, although parts may be sourced from various countries. If one shifts their final assembly point to another country can possibly avoid unfavourable expensive tariffs in another.

No. The country of origin is defined as where substantial changes to materials occurs. I heard a great example of a case that was litigated in the last year regarding sticky notes: paper was sourced from Japan, adhesive from another country, and assembly in China. The court determined that the greatest transformation occurred with the manufacture of paper, thus the country of origin was deemed Japan, not China where the paper was turned into a sticky note.

 

[Woodpad]

I am a little concerned about posts on the Cafe site accusing reputable manufactures such as Jupiter of illegal practices such as smuggling. We may need to delete some posts for legal reasons. Or is this just a language/translation issue?

no smoking gun. But the discussions on Brexit and country of origin showed that it its not easy to determine country of origin if you assemble parts from factoties in different counries while parts are traveling around.

 

[Ghr9204]

no smoking gun. But the discussions on Brexit and country of origin showed that it its not easy to determine country of origin if you assemble parts from factoties in different counries while parts are traveling around.

I have not investigated laws outside US. Perhaps some countries define Country of Origin as having at least say, minimum of 51% of parts by value or weight be made from their home country?

 

[Woodpad]

I have not investigated laws outside US. Perhaps some countries define Country of Origin as having at least say, minimum of 51% of parts by value or weight be made from their home country?

Every country can make its own rules on this, which makes it difficult for international trade. This site is a good starting point for the different methods used: Country of origin label requirements for every country,

 

[jonf]

Every country can make its own rules on this, which makes it difficult for international trade. This site is a good starting point for the different methods used: Country of origin label requirements for every country,

Just be aware that Made by Liberty, who produce that site, is not exactly a definitive source nor a neutral commentator.

The situatation is indeed complicated. For the UK (not mentioned in the above site) the rules can depend on the content of individual trade agreements, of which there are currently 39. If products are 'wholly obtained' from a single country, it's pretty straightforward. Where they constitute products with multiple sources, then it depends on whether gods are 'sufficiently worked or processed'. This prevents something just being transhipped through a country, having, say, a sticker applied and then pretending to be from that country. As what constitutes sufficiently worked or processed can vary by trade agreement, although the principle is simple, the practical reality might not be.

 

[Ivan]

That figure read wrong to me as well, looks like they meant 7.9375%

Oh

Now I see

 

[Woodpad]

Today the price difference for a jbs 1000 (jupiter bari) between Sweetwater (US) and Thomann (Europe) is $3000. At the start of this item it was around $400.

 

[Dr G]

Today the price difference for a jbs 1000 (jupiter bari) between Sweetwater (US) and Thomann (Europe) is $3000. At the start of this item it was around $400.

Please include the raw numbers. From what you wrote, we don’t know whether the change is due to one going up or the other going down, or due to both changing in the same direction at different rates.

 

[Jimmymack]

That does seems a bit extreme and a bit premature. I’m confused as to which tariffs are set and when they take effect, I thought we were waiting for August 1st now so prices shouldn’t be affected yet.

I’ve been wondering about what will happen with US branded reeds made in France and how that may affect prices when they come back across the Atlantic. BSS reed users, among others, want to know, although in time I expect I’ll find out. Given the price of boutique reeds already another 30% will put and to my extravagance there.

 

[Ghr9204]

The figure appears to be in dollars. Thomann prices are up by £50 for us in the UK. I believe the US tariffs on imported Chinese goods are already in place. And, my word! $3000 (dollars) is just over a £2000 price hike. I feel sorry for our US brothers as no saxes are made in the US now as far as I'm aware. I think the only saxes that are put together in the UK are the Trevor James Raw.

My general impression based on my past comparing sax prices between US and EU prior to Covid had always favoured EU prices for some odd reason, saxes have always been cheaper there (converting monetary units to US). This was named brand saxes, Selmer, Yamaha, etc.

Seemed the "middle man" in US got a bigger bite than in EU. It was easily about a $1,000 - $1,500 price difference. Now it appears it has doubled.

 

[ESJohn]

"The Jean Paul AS400 is now $672.48 from $627.02 in April on Amazon with the Glory at $208.99."

It's now $679.99 with a premium bundle at $729.99. The Glory is $219.99. Looks like just normal inflation at this point. Postal rates also increased on July 13 over here.

I can't imagine a bari for $400 used or new. How did I miss that?

 

[Dr G]

That does seems a bit extreme and a bit premature. I’m confused as to which tariffs are set and when they take effect, I thought we were waiting for August 1st now so prices shouldn’t be affected yet.

I’ve been wondering about what will happen with US branded reeds made in France and how that may affect prices when they come back across the Atlantic. BSS reed users, among others, want to know, although in time I expect I’ll find out. Given the price of boutique reeds already another 30% will put and to my extravagance there.

Stock that is coming from a warehouse in the country of sale isn’t subject to the tarriffs. Some sellers may start to increase prices regardless. It’s a mess that will take a while to come to equilibrium.

 

[Ghr9204]

"The Jean Paul AS400 is now $672.48 from $627.02 in April on Amazon with the Glory at $208.99."
It's now $679.99 with a premium bundle at $729.99. The Glory is $219.99. Looks like just normal inflation at this point. Postal rates also increased on July 13 over here.

It may be old stock adjusted for inflation? Or, the US tariffs did not affect these inexpensive instruments?

I am quite happy that I bought my Antigua Winds BS3220LQ Low-A Bari in Feb. 2021 for $2,255.02 (£1,680.75) before tax (new but an older unsold model - about 2014 year). In 2014, Musician's Friend was listing it at $4,400.00 (£3,279.23).

Regarding inflation, $2,255.02 in 2021, my cost, is now $2,687.48 in 2025. Cost new was $4,400 in 2014 is now $6,002.16 (£4,473.11) in 2025.

For the sake of this discussion, I was looking for an equivalent new bari to mine on both Musician's Friend and Sweetwater, as they are US based where I am at. (Seems Antigua Winds has dropped off the radar.)

I first looked at the Jupiter JBS 1000, but at $6,149.00 (£4,582.77 UK), it has a cheaper case than mine, but in inflationary dollars is about right price wise. The Selmer 300 Series Baritone Saxophone Lacquer Nickel Plated Keys has the exact same heavier duty luggage grade case and wheels as my Antigua Winds and is a touch cheaper than the Jupiter at $5,239.00 (£3,904.23 UK).

The conclusion I finally came to is that a musician to be happy will go with what they can afford regardless of tariffs, taxes, etc. Today, I would probably be just as happy with a Selmer 300 (SBS311) Bari at roughly a thousand dollars less than the Jupiter JBS 1000.

 

[Honkin Ron Howe]

It may be old stock adjusted for inflation? Or, the US tariffs did not affect these inexpensive instruments?

As ghostler says, I'm not seeing a problem with the US prices. In fact, you can indeed buy a Conn Selmer student bari for peanuts! We can't get that deal in the UK! That's £3,913. And these Selmers seem to be made in Taiwan, which is usually good. Check out Stephen Howard's 2023 review of the Conn Selmer Premiere PBS380V baritone.

 

[mizmar]

I really wouldn't have to much confidence in online pricing to give an idea of long term impact.
For a start, sales and marketing people can be relied on for a free drink on expenses and little else except maximising their monthly bonuses. I can imagine them going "people expect a price hike soon, so put it on sale and they'll panic shop"
Also; the tariff situation is in flux and will remain so for a few years; China has actually upped it exports (see above), as reported; online sites are dynamic and can adjust to where you are; $/€/£ exchange rates are also unstable, have different inflation rates etc. etc. For me, there's just to many moving parts for the average web user.

 

[thomsax]

Prices and tariffs is important .... but don't foget check what you get for your money. In the mid 70's a Conn Director tenor cost more than a Yamaha YTS 61 ... and a Yanigisawa T5 was nearly half the price of a Conn. Where is our new saxes going to be built? India, Brazil, Chile, Argentina ..... ???? We are aleady looking for new countries .... . I'm not sure if saxes is a product that is so important.

 

[Woodpad]

Prices and tariffs is important .... but don't foget check what you get for your money. In the mid 70's a Conn Director tenor cost more than a Yamaha YTS 61 ... and a Yanigisawa T5 was nearly half the price of a Conn. Where is our new saxes going to be built? India, Brazil, Chile, Argentina ..... ???? We are aleady looking for new countries .... . I'm not sure if saxes is a product that is so important.

Vietnam is one of the new nominees for new saxophone countries. No movement in Mongolia yet, but its number of skilled mechanics makes it a possibility.

This price flash of one bari in two stores on different continents is not a reliable figure to see how the world economie reacts on tarrifs. It is just a flash and the inflation figures are a better index.

I choose for a midrange bari that is sold worldwide. For some reason stores don't stock bari's, so the theorie is that this price will react faster than alto and tenors prices. As Ghostler wrote there is a long standing price difference between the US and Europe and it seems to grow. Another complication is the changing value of currencies. I just convert the price to the daily exchange rate.

 

[Honkin Ron Howe]

I really wouldn't have too much confidence in online pricing to give an idea of long term impact.

I agree, and that's why I posted 'todays' (Sweetwater) prices. The market is just so dynamic. I check Thomann regularly, just in case, but I don't generally look at US prices ... I wouldn't buy from the US as for us the postage is prohibitive in the UK. Mind you, I wouldn't buy direct from outside Europe anyway. But, it was interesting to compare in the moment. I'm not in the buying market now either as an OAP and, I still haven't told my wife that I bought another baritone! ... when I retired, she said, "No more saxophones, we can't afford it!"

 

[Ghr9204]

I still haven't told my wife that I bought another baritone! ... when I retired, she said, "No more saxophones, we can't afford it!"

Yes, it is a little difficult to explain to the Mrs., "Look what followed me home!"